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Author Topic: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination  (Read 20694 times)

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2019, 10:10:31 PM »
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They have Quaker pacifist housewives and waitresses and steamfitters and shoe salesmen and ticket takers and cab drivers and bus drivers and warehouse workers and dozens and dozens of ordinary people conspiring with major elements of the government - the CIA, the FBI, the Pentagon, the Secret Service, the Justice Department - to murder the president. And frame an innocent man. And then cover all of that up for the rest of their lives.

Then, if that's not enough, they have us "LN shills" working with or on behalf of the conspirators.

It never ends.

It’s a mindset that defies articulable facts, reason, and logic.

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2019, 10:10:31 PM »


Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2019, 10:20:18 PM »
It’s a mindset that defies articulable facts, reason, and logic.
That they then demand we refute. To their satisfaction.

How can one prove that Ruth Paine wasn't a CIA agent controlling/handling Oswald? It's not impossible to prove a negative - I can prove I didn't shoot Lincoln; but in this matter it is impossible. Even if we had documents from the CIA stating that Ruth Paine would not be a person of use and that they rejected any thoughts of using her, the conspiracists would simply say they were faked. So what can we do?

All we can do, essentially, is ask that if she was part of the framing of Oswald then why didn't she do "A" or "B"? As in, why didn't she say he expressed hatred towards JFK? Why didn't she say she saw his rifle in the garage? And that she saw him leave with it that morning? Those are the types of deeply incriminating evidence against Oswald that the conspirators would want her to do.

But she did none of that. Why not?

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2019, 11:03:51 PM »
Yes. And for the younger generation - under 40 or so - most of what they know comes from watching the Stone movie in history class. Swell, just swell.

These supposed JFK "conspirators" are almost all dead. We have Paine and who else? Any major figure, anyone in "command" has long been dead. To think this nefarious "they" care about what is said here is just...well, I have no words. To think "they" reward "LN shills" is, again, I have no words. Not all conspiracy believers suffer from a form of "conspiracism"; but not all of them don't either.

Conspiracism is defined as: "Conspiracism serves the needs of diverse political and social groups in America and elsewhere. It identifies elites, blames them for economic and social catastrophes, and assumes that things will be better once popular action can remove them from positions of power. As such, conspiracy theories do not typify a particular epoch or ideology."

So we see Trump and his supporters promoting them; and Trump's hardcore opponents promoting them as well. Trump is a conman and narcissist who warrants removal from office; but he's not a Manchurian candidate controlled by Putin. But I don't think this is unique to the US. Maybe more prevalent now; but there's always been conspiracy beliefs - the Jews killed Jesus, the Masons control the world, type of thinking.

PSYCHOLOGY OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES
British Journal of Psychology · August 2016
Karen M. Douglas
University of Kent

See discussions, stats, and author profiles for this publication at:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/305882368

[EXCERPTS]
 
Recent years have seen a growing interest in the psychological factors associated with conspiracy belief (see Bilewicz, Cichocka & Soral, 2015 for an overview). For example, conspiracy belief has been linked to distrust in authority, cynicism (Abalakina- Paap, Stephan, Craig & Gregory, 1999; Swami, Chamorro-Premuzic & Furnham, 2010), Machiavellianism (Douglas & Sutton, 2011), collective narcissism (Cichocka, Marchlewska, Golec de Zavala & Olechowski, in press), and a tendency to attribute agency and intentionality where it is unlikely to exist (Douglas, Sutton, Callan, Dawtry & Harvey, 2016). Conspiracy theories are said to thrive under conditions of powerlessness (Whitson & Galinsky, 2008) and uncertainty (van Prooijen & Jostmann, 2013).
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 11:06:51 PM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #58 on: December 20, 2019, 11:03:51 PM »


Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2019, 11:57:34 PM »
That they then demand we refute. To their satisfaction.

How can one prove that Ruth Paine wasn't a CIA agent controlling/handling Oswald? It's not impossible to prove a negative - I can prove I didn't shoot Lincoln; but in this matter it is impossible. Even if we had documents from the CIA stating that Ruth Paine would not be a person of use and that they rejected any thoughts of using her, the conspiracists would simply say they were faked. So what can we do?

All we can do, essentially, is ask that if she was part of the framing of Oswald then why didn't she do "A" or "B"? As in, why didn't she say he expressed hatred towards JFK? Why didn't she say she saw his rifle in the garage? And that she saw him leave with it that morning? Those are the types of deeply incriminating evidence against Oswald that the conspirators would want her to do.

But she did none of that. Why not?

For the sake of argument let's assume this was a conspiracy either big or small. Logic dictates:

A) If Oswald was a conspirator then he was planted in the TSBD and the motorcade was rerouted down Elm.
B) If Oswald was planted then the conspirators had to be high enough on the food chain to make it happen.
C) Only a "big" conspiracy could have set up Oswald for the Big Event.
D) If this was a big conspiracy then Oswald was a patsy and the DPD were in on it.
E) If Oswald was the patsy in the Big Event then he was also a singleton agent who got double-crossed.
F) If Oswald was a singleton agent then he must have been recruited from CIA's Fake Defector program.
G) If Oswald was a CIA agent then he had handlers.
H) If Oswald had handlers the person who he lived with and got him a job at the TSBD, was likely one of them.
I) He lived with Ruth Paine who was overly involved in his life, yet apparently knew nothing about the Big Event.
J) Handlers come in all shapes and sizes and Paine was perfect for the role considering how she continues to dupe all the LNers.

The Food Chain:

K) Who was in charge of the Fake Defector program in 1963? CIA CI director James Jesus Angleton, Allen Dulles best bud.
L) Who wanted JFK dead the most after the BOPs fiasco? Dulles.
M) Who had that compromising photo of Hoover at the time? Angleton
N) Who was easily persuaded to get on board with the Big Event? Hoover
O) Who had various members of the DPD and SS under their thumb? Hoover
P) Who was more than willing to turn a blind eye and let it all play out so he could step in as POTUS? Johnson
Q) Who were the ONLY people who could have made the Big Event happen? See above.

Before you know it, Oswald gets apprehended by the DPD 1 hour after he flees the scene, then Hoover and Johnson get on the phone to discuss a month's worth of incriminating dirt on Oswald dug up less than 24 hours after the assassination.  Sorry, I just don't buy it. You can speculate why Paine didn't do this or that, but it seems to me she did her job perfectly. She's still here isn't she? JMHO.

« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 12:11:10 AM by Jack Trojan »

Offline Ted Shields

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2020, 10:05:59 AM »
Sorry if its been answered but when is the Truth is the Only Client documentary released?

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2020, 10:05:59 AM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2020, 04:53:16 PM »
  Marina said that she believed that Oswald liked JFK too. But she later testified that she wasn't sure and that she made that judgment because he would read favorable stories about JFK to her. 
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But she later testified that she wasn't sure
Where was that specifically?
Here is Marina Oswald Porter's statements before the HSCA--------
Quote
Mr. PREYER. Did Lee ever talk about United States politics after you were married, that is, did he talk about officials of the United States, such as the President or the Secretary of State or, did he talk about policies of the U.S. Government?
Mrs. PORTER. If he did, he wasn't talking to me about it, because I wasn't really interested in his political view or anybody's political view.
Mr. PREYER. Specifically did he ever talk about President Kennedy?
Mrs. PORTER. Whatever he said about President Kennedy, it was only good, always.
Quote
Mr. PREYER. At this time when he first returned in Texas, did he talk about politics or did he mention President Kennedy again at any time?
Mrs. PORTER. Off and on, but it was always complimentary, something good.
Mr. PREYER. Did he talk in general about any other politicians or public figures in the United States at this time?
Mrs. PORTER. Not that I recall; no.
Quote
Mr. McDONALD. Can you recall in your presence whether George DeMohrenschildt and Lee ever spoke about President Kennedy?
Mrs. PORTER. If I say right now that, yes, I do, they probably talked about, and then you ask me about the details which I cannot remember, but, yes, the name John Kennedy was mentioned in their conversation.
Mr. McDONALD. Can you recall in what context? In other words, were they speaking favorably of Kennedy?
Mrs. PORTER. I think so. Well, I recall that George DeMohrenschildt told me once that when he was younger, I mean he knew Jackie Kennedy before she was married to John Kennedy when she was a young lady and spoke very nicely about her.
Mr. McDONALD. And how about Lee's views at the time? Do you recall whether they were ever engaged in argument?
Mrs. PORTER. I do not recall ever hearing Lee talking badly about John Kennedy or Kennedy family.
Does that settle it for everybody?
 

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #62 on: January 18, 2020, 09:39:16 PM »
The copying of Oswalds's letter, preceded by her "snooping" , remains..curious?

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2020, 10:24:45 PM »
Paine: "I think it was a spur of the moment thing for him. That he could do this. I don’t think he was shooting at Kennedy. He was shooting at the Presidency."

That was Bugliosi's theory too: i.e., that Oswald was shooting at what JFK represented - that is, the head of the political and economic systems that he repeatedly said he hated - and not specifically at JFK.

It is odd that we have very little about what Oswald thought about JFK. De Mohrenschildt said that Oswald expressed admiration for JFK, especially his civil rights proposals. Marina said that she believed that Oswald liked JFK too. But she later testified that she wasn't sure and that she made that judgment because he would read favorable stories about JFK to her. I'll just add parenthetically: if Marina (and or DeMohrenschildt) was coached or coerced into giving damning information about Oswald then why didn't "they" tell her/him to say he hated JFK?

Again, however, we have Oswald's repeated denunciations of America, of its political and economic structure. So why would he "like" the leader of the systems he detested? Plus: Cuba. Oswald admired Castro, he wanted to defect there. Sure, after the problems with the Cubans in Mexico City obtaining a visa he seemed to sour on Cuba. But why turn on Castro?

In any case, I think Oswald was aware of JFK's covert war on Cuba, perhaps even about the assassination plots against Castro (question: did he meet anyone in Mexico City who "inflamed" his dislike of JFK?). And that played a role - large or small - in his decision. He may have been driven in part by a desire for fame or for attacking the Presidency and not the President but I don't think we can take JFK the man out of his motivations.

Oswald liked Kennedy despite the Bay of Pigs and Cuban Missile Crisis. So why would knowledge of the Covert War against Cuba make him dislike Kennedy?

Oswald knew at the time when he said nice things about Kennedy to his wife and George DM that the US under Kennedy was hostile towards Cuba and had to have known that LBJ would continue Kennedy’s policies.




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Re: Ruth Paine remembers the Assassination
« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2020, 10:24:45 PM »