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Author Topic: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.  (Read 96703 times)

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #488 on: March 19, 2020, 03:32:27 AM »
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So the bag was at the wrapping table as I suggested after all. At least you used the quote I provided in my post to prove my point.

The problem with using it to prove your theory about it coinciding with Montgomery leaving with it is this.....that boat don’t float.

Mr. BELIN. Did you take it down to the station with you?
Mr. DAY. I didn't take it with me. I left it with the men when I left. I left Detectives Hicks and Studebaker to bring this in with them when they brought other equipment in.

Day said he left the bag with the men when he left, which he obviously did. Day took the rifle back to the station earlier and then returned to the TSBD. The men left with the bag around three o'clock and are seen in front of the TSBD at three, which coincided with Day's return to the TSBD. He took the bag "over" to the wrapping table and compared it with the paper and tape in use there.
Once in the wrapping room Day asked an officer to get a piece of tape and paper.

Mr. DAY. I directed one of the officers standing by me, I don't know which, to get a piece of the tape and a piece of the paper from the wrapping bench.

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #488 on: March 19, 2020, 03:32:27 AM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #489 on: March 19, 2020, 04:19:40 AM »
You are assuming they knew Biffle or anything about him. There were people all around on the 6th floor and Biffle mentions that he not only saw the bag but the detectives were discussing its purpose which Detective Johnson confirms.

Mr. JOHNSON. No; other than like I said, my partner picked it up and we unfolded it and it appeared to be about the same shape as a rifle case would be. In other words, we made the remark that that is what he probably brought it in.
That is why, the reason we saved it.

So you have no corroboration of Biffle seeing the bag before the gun was found. No one said there was a reporter there and Biffle did not name anyone. An unconfirmed, uncorroborated anecdote not offered as an official statement or under oath. Who knows could have been a dream.

And as for using Johnson.....

Mr. BELIN. Your testimony then is that all the sack would have been east of the pipes. Is that correct?
Mr. JOHNSON. I would say that the sack was folded up here and it was east of the pipes in the corner. To the best of my memory, that is where my partner picked it up. I was standing there when he picked it up.
Mr. BELIN. You were standing there when he picked it up?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, because the Crime Lab was already finished where I was, and I had already walked off to where he was.

Johnson gives us the best indication when this occurred. He was assigned an area west of the SN, essentially guarding the chicken lunch remnants, outside the arranged boxes. Once Studebaker returned following the departure of Day with the rifle, Studebaker processed the bottle and lunch sack. Johnson then moved to where Montgomery was inside the SN. This is when Montgomery "discovered" the bag.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 04:25:35 AM by Colin Crow »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #490 on: March 19, 2020, 04:23:55 AM »
Day said he left the bag with the men when he left, which he obviously did. Day took the rifle back to the station earlier and then returned to the TSBD. The men left with the bag around three o'clock and are seen in front of the TSBD at three, which coincided with Day's return to the TSBD. He took the bag "over" to the wrapping table and compared it with the paper and tape in use there.
Once in the wrapping room Day asked an officer to get a piece of tape and paper.

Mr. DAY. I directed one of the officers standing by me, I don't know which, to get a piece of the tape and a piece of the paper from the wrapping bench.

Day said he left the bag with Hicks and Studebaker. Hicks did not arrive until after 3pm. The bag had departed by then.

The officer who collected the samples of paper was Studebaker. Studebaker had just assisted Day at the scene of the rifle discovery. He too left the sixth floor. I propose that this occurred at the time Day descended to take the rifle to the TSBD.

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #490 on: March 19, 2020, 04:23:55 AM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #491 on: March 19, 2020, 05:48:25 AM »
  CE 142 is not key to anything.
If it isn't a key to anything...why is the last couple of pages spent on trying to make it fit?
It is clear that Frazier could have discerned the difference between a 6-7 lb bag of hardware and a 6 oz package with curtain rods.
Wes Frazier was arrested and charged as an accessory to murder...or he could go on home if he could just "come clean" about Oswald. What was Oswald to him and his sister? The cops were in on it. Why is this so hard to believe?

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #492 on: March 19, 2020, 06:12:41 AM »
If it isn't a key to anything...why is the last couple of pages spent on trying to make it fit?
It is clear that Frazier could have discerned the difference between a 6-7 lb bag of hardware and a 6 oz package with curtain rods.
Wes Frazier was arrested and charged as an accessory to murder...or he could go on home if he could just "come clean" about Oswald. What was Oswald to him and his sister? The cops were in on it. Why is this so hard to believe?

Jerry, ponder when the curtain rods "story" first appeared officially. Then track back what Buell and his sister said about it at the WC. Who knew what and when? When was the bag first claimed to have contained the rifle? Who claimed it first?

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #492 on: March 19, 2020, 06:12:41 AM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #493 on: March 19, 2020, 11:24:28 AM »
The shadow gurus would give us a definitive answer......Ray or Charles have dabbled with that science in the past from memory.

I created a reasonably accurate 3-D model of the sniper’s nest area of the TSBD that is based on actual measurements. If I had actual measurements to use for a similar 3-D model of the TSBD entrance area, I would be happy to apply the sun’s positioning in the computer program and compare to the Allen photos. If anyone has these measurements, or can obtain them please let me know.

Offline Peter Goth

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #494 on: March 19, 2020, 11:35:46 AM »
I created a reasonably accurate 3-D model of the sniper’s nest area of the TSBD that is based on actual measurements. If I had actual measurements to use for a similar 3-D model of the TSBD entrance area, I would be happy to apply the sun’s positioning in the computer program and compare to the Allen photos. If anyone has these measurements, or can obtain them please let me know.

 :D  your "sun positioning" is a cartoon of what you want to see.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 11:37:48 AM by Peter Goth »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #495 on: March 19, 2020, 11:41:32 AM »
:D  your "sun positioning" is a cartoon of what you want to see.

Again, I suggest that you try it for yourself. The program is free. The measurements are available on this forum. And be sure to let us know what your results are...

Edit:
And your attitude reminds me of the attitude of the Italian authorities toward the scientific evidence eventually recovered in this 1980 air disaster:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itavia_Flight_870

They had their minds made up that it was a missile that downed the plane. And refused to publish the actual report showing scientific evidence that it was actually a bomb.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 11:55:45 AM by Charles Collins »

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #495 on: March 19, 2020, 11:41:32 AM »