Shells, rifle, SN... Who?

[Walt Cakebread]

Avoided at every turn following his death were the statements of Lee Oswald that he had reportedly told Capt Fritz he saw a couple of rifles in the TSBD that week. Failing to recap what inspired that account...the Commissioners called Mr Warren Caster to relay his involvement in all of this.  Caster dodged that question. Who told him to? Yeah, uh Oswald being there must have slipped his mind
How many WERE there Mr Caster?
Notice how any recollection of Oswald's presence when the rifles were viewed were circumvented by the entire proceeding?
Way to go there--truth was our only client. Truth got screwed at every turn.

FBI agent James Hosty who was there at the first interrogation of Lee Oswald kept his hand scribbled notes of the interrogation.
 Hosty scribbled...Quote--- "Day before yesterday,  Mr Truley had rifle and two others 1st floor outside office"--- unquote

Notice how Lee Oswald's statement matches Caster's statement with regard to the location where the rifles were being displayed and seen.

Those who deny that Lee told Cap't. Fritz ( and Hosty) that he had seen this rifle and two others outside Mr Truly's office ...always try to argue that Hosty meant that there were two other men outside Truly's office that Wednesday ...But here's what Mr Caster said about the number of men who were there...

Mr. CASTER. "Well, I'm not really sure who was there. I think you were there, Bill, and Mr. Shelley was there---and Mr. Roy Truly. The only people that I know about, in any event, were there; there were workers there at the time, but I'm not quite sure how many. I couldn't even tell you their names".

There most certainly was more than "two other men"....   Lee was referring to the number of rifles that he saw..... this "rifle and two other's" and NOT the number of men.

[Bill Chapman]

& 'Chapman' is a generic term for trolls.
I just couldn't help that one

'Chapman' is generic for the hunters of trolls

[Mitch Todd]

Weitzman, Boone, and Craig. They all stated that they saw a Mauser. You’re convinced that the Alyea film shows a Carcano. That’s two rifles.

It's also one rifle, a guy who doesn't know guns as well as he might like to believe, a guy who takes his cue from the guy who doesn't quite know guns that well, and a semi-pro liar who's spent years spinning a self-contradictory story.

Where's the unambiguous evidence of two rifles in the depository? Who claimed that they saw two rifles in the depository? That's the kind of thing you need right now.

[Mitch Todd]

Now you're sounding like the LNer that you are. Alyea was the person who said Fritz staged the in situ photo of the hulls? So is he a liar too? Then why do you consider his film gospel? Oh right, the LNer thing and your denial of any evidence against it.

Alyea didn't say that Fritz staged the photos of the cartridge cases. Alyea said that he filmed the cases from over the top of boxes on the West side of the SN. When Alyea wanted a closeup shot of the shells, Fritz picked them up and held them up to the camera.  And where did Alyea say that Fritz staged anything with the rifle?

[Mitch Todd]

I'm not arguing anything with you. Just pointing out some facts and asking questions.

The majority of model '91 Argentine 7.65 Mausers imported into the US had the Argentine national crest ground off.

https://gunsinthenews.com/1891-argentine-mauser-history/

"Collectors in the U.S., though, often find the national crest ground off of Argentine 1891 Mausers. This was done in the aftermath of the Chaco War of 1935, which pitted Bolivia and Paraguay against one another in a vicious albeit brief struggle for control of South America’s resource-rich Chaco Boreal. Argentina provided Paraguay with a large number of Model 1891 Mausers during the conflict in a move that jeopardized its relationship with Bolivia. The presence of unground national crests made it impossible to deny Argentina’s direct support for Paraguay, so after the war Argentina instituted a law requiring the removal of the national crest from any gun leaving the country. Although the government in Buenos Aires later dropped this requirement, by then most of the Argentine 1891 Mausers had been ground, and this accounts for why it is rare to find one with the crest intact."

Pertinent to the conversation because of the alleged Boone and Weitzman misidentification of a rifle in the TSBD. Apparently a '91 Argentine Mauser because it's the Mauser that most resembles the TSBD Carcano. My question: Is there something on the TSBD Carcano  that would have given them the impression it had a ground off Argentine national crest?

The Carcano receiver was blued; same with the Argie Mausers. Bluing is a surface treatment. When you grind off that surface, it exposes the underlying steel against the dark remaining bluing. Over many years, the exposed steel will develop a brownish patina, but even then, it's easy to tell the difference between the ground area and the blued OEM surface. And in 1963, the underlying steel wouldn't have had quite so much time to develop that patina. To my knowledge, no one ever claimed to have seen anything on the rifle found in the TSBD that would indicate such a modification.

[Mitch Todd]

It's simple syllogistic logic. If you know that Mausers hold 5 rounds, and you think that a rifle you see is a Mauser, then you are liable to that the "Mauser" hold five rounds.

That's right....Weitzman apparently was familiar with the Argentine Mauser, so he knew that it held five rounds.....This is one of the things that leads me to believe that Weitzman actually had his hands on a 7.65 Mauser.  (And that most definitely was NOT on the sixth floor that afternoon. )

I can't even figure out how you're so sure that Weitzman held anything that day. Sayers' report is hearsay, not even a quote. The D/FW FBI team was interviewing an awful lot of people over that weekend, retreating to their offices in the the Federal building, then reconstructing those interviews from whatever notes they took combined with whatever they could remember. Given the workload, exacting accuracy might not be wisely expected.

Who said that Weitzman or Boone or anyone else found a second rifle, separate from the Carcano seen in the Alyea film?

Roger Craig made that claim..... Not that I believe that...I'm just tellin you that Roger Craig said that. 

Please, Let's not let this degenerate into petty arguments about the features of Argentine Mausers....   Let's try to come up a reasonable explanation for the FBI report of A1bert Sawyer....and Weitzman's very specific description of a 7.65 mauser.

How can you not talk about a "very specific description of a 7.65 mauser" and not have "petty arguments about the features of Argentine Mausers?"

[Mitch Todd]

The point of contention in Revills memo is pretty non-specific: "they [FBI] had information that this subject was capable of committing the assassination of President Kennedy." Exactly what that means is anyone's guess.

A reporter for the DMN reported in an story in the DMN for April 24, 1964, that FBI special agent James Hosty told Lt. Jack Revill of the DPD that...Quote....We knew that he was capable of assassinating the president, but we didn't dream that he would do it"....unquote

According to Lt  Jack Revill   it was this statement that prompted him to report Hosty's remarks to his boss, Captain Gannaway.

I think that's a funny thing to say. If they "didn't dream that he would do it" then why would they think that "he was capable of assassinating the President," at least in the sense that "capable of assassinating the President" meaning that they considered Oswald to be inherently dangerous.

[Walt Cakebread]

I can't even figure out how you're so sure that Weitzman held anything that day. Sayers' report is hearsay, not even a quote. The D/FW FBI team was interviewing an awful lot of people over that weekend, retreating to their offices in the the Federal building, then reconstructing those interviews from whatever notes they took combined with whatever they could remember. Given the workload, exacting accuracy might not be wisely expected.

How can you not talk about a "very specific description of a 7.65 mauser" and not have "petty arguments about the features of Argentine Mausers?"

I can't even figure out how you're so sure that Weitzman held anything that day. Sayers' report is hearsay, not even a quote. The D/FW FBI team was interviewing an awful lot of people over that weekend, retreating to their offices in the the Federal building, then reconstructing those interviews from whatever notes they took combined with whatever they could remember. Given the workload, exacting accuracy might not be wisely expected.

Now you're answering the question....You're saying that A1bert Sawers didn't write his report after he and Detective "Charlie" Brown interviewed Weitzman, And that Sawer's just worked from notes that he jotted down.   You may be right, because I've wondered if Sawyer's was drunk when he wrote that report, because he screwed up some of the details.....Details that we know are facts ....... 

Do you know if Weitzman ever read that report?