Shells, rifle, SN... Who?

[Jack Trojan]

Please provide verification.....  Perhaps you can provide statements or affidavits of 6 or 8 men who were there ....and a second rifle would have been stupendous news which would have got the attention of a news man with a camera....  Can you provide a single photo to back up your theory?

That conclusion is:   Seymour Weitzman examined a 7.65 mauser for FBI agent A1lbert Sayers.   WHERE did this mauser come from??

Where is your proof that Weitzman examined a 7.65 Mauser? My conclusion as to where it came from is just as valid a guess as your claim that there was a Mauser at all. You are the one who is absolutely 100% certain there was no Mauser found on the 6th floor of the TSBD, yet you are sure Sayers pulls a Mauser out of his ass for Weitzman to examine, but it was back at the Police Station where at least 6 to 8 men must have seen it. So where are their affidavits? You need to prove that Craig and Weitzman lied before you claim they did not see a Mauser at the crime scene, which Fritz quickly removed (not replaced) before Alyea filmed anything. You have utterly failed to do that because film and photos can't prove what wasn't there. Why didn't Alyea film the ejected hulls in the SN? I suppose that means that Alyea was also a liar and working for Fritz. After all, if he didn't film it, it didn't happen, right?

I never claimed with any certainty that a Mauser was mistakenly discovered at the crime scene and removed before filming. Only that your 100% certainty that Craig was mentally ill and FOS is misguided because you rely exclusively on your lying eyes to know whether film footage tells the whole tale. That's not how critical thinking works unless you have an agenda. Yours is you have a hate on for Craig because, like Heir Drumpf, you think whistle blowers are dirty rats.

If this was a conspiracy then what did the conspirators do with whistle blowers? They either painted them crazy and/or removed them permanently, like Fritz did with the Mauser on the 6th floor. 

[Gary Craig]

"Deputy Boone called out that he had found the rifle shoved down between 2 rows of pasteboard boxes of books. Capt. Fritz took over the search at this time and one of the other Deputies who had been in the building came and told us that Sheriff Decker had given orders to let the City take over the investigation and for the Deputies to return to the sheriffs office, which we did."

[Gary Craig]

They wrote down 7.65 Mauser.

[Gary Craig]

Weitzman was interveiwed by a special agent from the FBI and he descrided what they, (he and Boone), found.
A 7.65 Mauser.

[Walt Cakebread]

That conclusion is:   Seymour Weitzman examined a 7.65 mauser for FBI agent A1lbert Sayers.   WHERE did this mauser come from??

Where is your proof that Weitzman examined a 7.65 Mauser? My conclusion as to where it came from is just as valid a guess as your claim that there was a Mauser at all. You are the one who is absolutely 100% certain there was no Mauser found on the 6th floor of the TSBD, yet you are sure Sayers pulls a Mauser out of his ass for Weitzman to examine, but it was back at the Police Station where at least 6 to 8 men must have seen it. So where are their affidavits? You need to prove that Craig and Weitzman lied before you claim they did not see a Mauser at the crime scene, which Fritz quickly removed (not replaced) before Alyea filmed anything. You have utterly failed to do that because film and photos can't prove what wasn't there. Why didn't Alyea film the ejected hulls in the SN? I suppose that means that Alyea was also a liar and working for Fritz. After all, if he didn't film it, it didn't happen, right?

I never claimed with any certainty that a Mauser was mistakenly discovered at the crime scene and removed before filming. Only that your 100% certainty that Craig was mentally ill and FOS is misguided because you rely exclusively on your lying eyes to know whether film footage tells the whole tale. That's not how critical thinking works unless you have an agenda. Yours is you have a hate on for Craig because, like Heir Drumpf, you think whistle blowers are dirty rats.

If this was a conspiracy then what did the conspirators do with whistle blowers? They either painted them crazy and/or removed them permanently, like Fritz did with the Mauser on the 6th floor. 

Where is your proof that Weitzman examined a 7.65 Mauser?

 Sayer wrote...."Mr Weitzman described the rifle which was found as a 7.65 caliber mauser, bolt action rifle, which loads from a five shot clip which is located on the underside of the receiver forward of the trigger guard."

[Jack Trojan]

Thanks Gary!

Sayer wrote...."Mr Weitzman described the rifle which was found as a 7.65 caliber mauser, bolt action rifle, which loads from a five shot clip which is located on the underside of the receiver forward of the trigger guard."

Then my proof is Weitzman's sworn affidavit that said the same thing. But he was mistaken, right?

Walt, the reason Sayers gave Weitzman a Mauser to describe was for plausible deniability. If Sayers knew that Weitzman had seen a Mauser then he needed to show him one that he could have been mistaken about. What Weitzman ultimately did was recant his story and claim he thought the Mauser he was shown came from the 6th floor. This is all fine and dandy ONLY if this happened on the afternoon/eve of the 22nd and before Weitzman's sworn affidavit. The DPD would only set him up like that if they knew Weitzman had prev read 7.65 Mauser off the barrel and assumed he would state that on his affidavit. What other explanation can you come up with why Weitzman was shown the Mauser and asked to describe it? Plausible deniability, of course.  It's like having an outsider whack Oswald instead of killing him at the theater. They were constantly having to clean up their messes along the way.

Lastly, how sure are you that no token shots came from the 6th floor? If you think it's possible, and you know the Carcano wasn't used, then what rifle would they have used instead? A similar rifle? A rifle that wouldn't jam? Where would they have ditched that rifle? Would they have put it on the roof? Is it possible that someone saw it before it left the 6th floor? And why am I even typing the word "Mauser", if it wasn't used as a surrogate for the Carcano? You are a CT aren't you? Assume this was a conspiracy and start thinking like a conspirator. What is the significance of the Mauser, which you acknowledge existed at the time?

[Walt Cakebread]

Thanks Gary!

Sayer wrote...."Mr Weitzman described the rifle which was found as a 7.65 caliber mauser, bolt action rifle, which loads from a five shot clip which is located on the underside of the receiver forward of the trigger guard."

Then my proof is Weitzman's sworn affidavit that said the same thing. But he was mistaken, right?

Walt, the reason Sayers gave Weitzman a Mauser to describe was for plausible deniability. If Sayers knew that Weitzman had seen a Mauser then he needed to show him one that he could have been mistaken about. What Weitzman ultimately did was recant his story and claim he thought the Mauser he was shown came from the 6th floor. This is all fine and dandy ONLY if this happened on the afternoon/eve of the 22nd and before Weitzman's sworn affidavit. The DPD would only set him up like that if they knew Weitzman had prev read 7.65 Mauser off the barrel and assumed he would state that on his affidavit. What other explanation can you come up with why Weitzman was shown the Mauser and asked to describe it? Plausible deniability, of course.  It's like having an outsider whack Oswald instead of killing him at the theater. They were constantly having to clean up their messes along the way.

Lastly, how sure are you that no token shots came from the 6th floor? If you think it's possible, and you know the Carcano wasn't used, then what rifle would they have used instead? A similar rifle? A rifle that wouldn't jam? Where would they have ditched that rifle? Would they have put it on the roof? Is it possible that someone saw it before it left the 6th floor? And why am I even typing the word "Mauser", if it wasn't used as a surrogate for the Carcano? You are a CT aren't you? Assume this was a conspiracy and start thinking like a conspirator. What is the significance of the Mauser, which you acknowledge existed at the time?

What is the significance of the Mauser, which you acknowledge existed at the time?

THAT is the question........ I'm absolutely certain that the rifle Weitzman and Boone discovered was a model 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano and it was laying on the floor about 5 feet from the east wall and 15 feet 4 inches from the north wall.  Weitzman was asked to examine a mauser later that afternoon for FBI agent A1bert Sayers.    Or Sayers simply took the info from the affidavits and wove a story around that information.....   It is a fact that some FBI agents twisted the witnesses reports.    Whatever happened...... the photos clearly show that the rifle that Weitzman and Boone discovered was a carcano.

As far as I know Weitzman was never asked to read Sayer's report and comment on the accuracy.....   Many of the witnesses said that they read the FBI reports about what they had witnessed and found the FBI had totally twisted their account.

[Walt Cakebread]

Weitzman was interveiwed by a special agent from the FBI and he descrided what they, (he and Boone), found.
A 7.65 Mauser.

Weitzman was interveiwed by a special agent from the FBI and he descrided what they, (he and Boone), found.
A 7.65 Mauser.

he described what he and Boone had found.....This is where the rubber meets the road.....Tom Alyea's film definitely shows Lt Day picking up a carcano FROM THE FLOOR and holding it up to Captain Fritz.... then another clip shows Day and Fritz examining the carcano ....and then more footage shows Lt Day dusting the carcano for finger prints.     THIS obviously is the rifle that Weitzman and Boone discovered LYING ON THE FLOOR at the bottom of a cavern of boxes of books.

However FBI agent A1bert Sayers said in a report that Seymour Weitzman described a 7.65 mauser for him.....  That could not have happened in the TSBD at around 2:00pm that day because Sayers wasn't in the TSBD at that time....( he was probably traveling between Houston and Dallas at that time)   Weitzman said that he was called to the police department later that afternoon and was interviewed by Sayers at that time.     

Sayers said that Weitzman described a 7.65 mauser which had a thick brownish black bandolier type sling on it... and the rear of the bolt was badly worn.

The carcano has a BLACK, light duty, SENTRY type sling ....and there is no sign of wear on the rear of the bolt..... Clearly the mauser is NOT the rifle that Weitzman and Boone discovered beneath the boxes of books.....