Shells, rifle, SN... Who?

[Walt Cakebread]

I'm not attacking Weitzman. I have no reason to doubt that he was "in the sporting goods business for awhile," but the circumstances he described give no reason to consider him any kind of firearms expert.  He never claimed to have been one, himself.  He was promoted to that status years after the fact by none other than Roger Craig in When They Kill a President:

"Seymour Weitzman, a deputy constable, was standing beside me at the time. Weitzman was an expert on weapons. He had been in the sporting goods business for many years and was familiar with all domestic and foreign weapons."   

I figure Roger Craig really is the problem, just like you said.

Thank you, Mitch....  For explaining that I wasn't singling anybody out as being dumber than a six year old....  I was merely pointing out how easy it is to see with your own eyes that the rifle was a Mannlicher Carcano.

the circumstances he described give no reason to consider him any kind of firearms expert. He never claimed to have been one, himself.

That's right....Weitzman recognized that he had made a mistake by offering a WAG about the make of the rifle, and he tried to make people understand that he had made an innocent ( and human)  mistake.   But the conspirators ( Hoover) who were bent on creating as much confusion and disinformation as possible would not support him in his apology, they wanted CT's to regurgitate the Mauser nonsense as a way of making all CT's appear to be "kooks'.   

I figure Roger Craig really is the problem, just like you said.

Yes....And even though I know that Roger Craig was a sick man..... I'd pee on his grave if I had the opportunity.

[Jack Trojan]

Thank you, Mitch....  For explaining that I wasn't singling anybody out as being dumber than a six year old....  I was merely pointing out how easy it is to see with your own eyes that the rifle was a Mannlicher Carcano.

the circumstances he described give no reason to consider him any kind of firearms expert. He never claimed to have been one, himself.

That's right....Weitzman recognized that he had made a mistake by offering a WAG about the make of the rifle, and he tried to make people understand that he had made an innocent ( and human)  mistake.   But the conspirators ( Hoover) who were bent on creating as much confusion and disinformation as possible would not support him in his apology, they wanted CT's to regurgitate the Mauser nonsense as a way of making all CT's appear to be "kooks'.   

I figure Roger Craig really is the problem, just like you said.

Yes....And even though I know that Roger Craig was a sick man..... I'd pee on his grave if I had the opportunity.

Why would you piss on anyone's grave you sick bastard? Especially on someone who was just trying to alert us that this was a conspiracy. You have no idea what context or order the Alyea film was shot and who is telling the truth and how any of it went down. Why the hell did Fritz allow Alyea to be there in the first place? All you've got is a tenuous identification of a rifle on grainy film that you assume is THE one and only rifle found at the scene even when the DPD planted the damn thing and didn't even use it. If any token shots came from the SN it wasn't with the MC, which makes the Mauser more plausible. It was a perfect substitute bolt action rifle because it might actually hit the target and it won't jam on you. And if it had a scope on it, I'll bet it was aligned correctly and sighted in.

Craig said he read "Mauser" off the barrel and even pointed it out to Weitzman who he said confirmed it at the time. Do you actually think that Weitzman was going to back him up once he realized this was a conspiracy? You assume Craig was lying because you think the film contradicts his testimony. Instead you believe Fritz, Day and Weitzman and you think the film is gospel even though you are only seeing what the conspirators want you to see. Craig may have been lying but I think that Weitzman and others saw a Mauser and it got scrubbed from the scene the way that the Zapruder film got scrubbed of all evidence that showed more than 1 shooter.

Your problem is you want to piss on the wrong grave.

[Walt Cakebread]

Why would you piss on anyone's grave you sick bastard? Especially on someone who was just trying to alert us that this was a conspiracy. You have no idea what context or order the Alyea film was shot and who is telling the truth and how any of it went down. Why the hell did Fritz allow Alyea to be there in the first place? All you've got is a tenuous identification of a rifle on grainy film that you assume is THE one and only rifle found at the scene even when the DPD planted the damn thing and didn't even use it. If any token shots came from the SN it wasn't with the MC, which makes the Mauser more plausible. It was a perfect substitute bolt action rifle because it might actually hit the target and it won't jam on you. And if it had a scope on it, I'll bet it was aligned correctly and sighted in.

Craig said he read "Mauser" off the barrel and even pointed it out to Weitzman who he said confirmed it at the time. Do you actually think that Weitzman was going to back him up once he realized this was a conspiracy? You assume Craig was lying because you think the film contradicts his testimony. Instead you believe Fritz, Day and Weitzman and you think the film is gospel even though you are only seeing what the conspirators want you to see. Craig may have been lying but I think that Weitzman and others saw a Mauser and it got scrubbed from the scene the way that the Zapruder film got scrubbed of all evidence that showed more than 1 shooter.

Your problem is you want to piss on the wrong grave.

someone who was just trying to alert us that this was a conspiracy.

I agree that Roger Craig knew that there was a conspiracy behind the coup d e'tat....   And he was trying to expose it.    The problem is:....He tried to lie into evidence a Mauser that never existed.    His inflated ego ( and mental problem) would not allow him to admit that he had made a mistake in accepting Seymour Weitzman's WAG as factual information.     Craig could have been honest, and simply have said that Weitzman had mis-identified the Manlicher Carcano as a Mauser, and he had based his identification of the rifle on Weitzman's WAG.    But his ego and mental problem wouldn't permit him to say that. 

Incidentally, Mr Trojan...You display  many of the same symptoms that Roger Craig displayed.....

[Walt Cakebread]

Why would you piss on anyone's grave you sick bastard? Especially on someone who was just trying to alert us that this was a conspiracy. You have no idea what context or order the Alyea film was shot and who is telling the truth and how any of it went down. Why the hell did Fritz allow Alyea to be there in the first place? All you've got is a tenuous identification of a rifle on grainy film that you assume is THE one and only rifle found at the scene even when the DPD planted the damn thing and didn't even use it. If any token shots came from the SN it wasn't with the MC, which makes the Mauser more plausible. It was a perfect substitute bolt action rifle because it might actually hit the target and it won't jam on you. And if it had a scope on it, I'll bet it was aligned correctly and sighted in.

Craig said he read "Mauser" off the barrel and even pointed it out to Weitzman who he said confirmed it at the time. Do you actually think that Weitzman was going to back him up once he realized this was a conspiracy? You assume Craig was lying because you think the film contradicts his testimony. Instead you believe Fritz, Day and Weitzman and you think the film is gospel even though you are only seeing what the conspirators want you to see. Craig may have been lying but I think that Weitzman and others saw a Mauser and it got scrubbed from the scene the way that the Zapruder film got scrubbed of all evidence that showed more than 1 shooter.

Your problem is you want to piss on the wrong grave.

You assume Craig was lying because you think the film contradicts his testimony. Instead you believe Fritz, Day and Weitzman and you think the film is gospel

WRONG!!.....   I Absolutely KNOW that Craig was lying.....and here's how I know that he was lying....

Originally Craig said that at the time that Fritz and Day were examining the rifle he saw the words "7.65 Mauser stamped right there on the barrel" 

Later when he was being question by the Newspaper reporter he said that the Mauser was found" LATER THAT AFTERNOON" on the roof of the TSBD.

I'm sure that even you can see the problem......   But I'll explain it for you...  If the Mauser wasn't found until after Craig left the TSBD at around 2:00 pm then he sure as hell couldn't have seen what he claimed he had seen.

P.S.  I most certainly am not taking Fritz and Day's word about the rifle being a Mannlicher Carcano....( Neither Day nor Fritz knew what kind of rifle they had picked up off the floor) I'm believing my own eyes...( as you should) ...  The Tom Alyea film that I posted is not grainy or blurry....and it clearly shows the rifle to be a Mannlicher Carcano.....you know it,  because you try to discredit the film.

You need professional mental help Mr Trojan......

[Jack Trojan]

You need professional mental help Mr Trojan......

I'm not the one who wants to piss on someone's grave just because he was trying to alert you about the conspiracy. Get a grip. And you don't know jack spombleprofglidnoctobuns about whether a Mauser was found in the TSBD based on whether Craig was lying about reading the barrel. Craig was apparently one of the few non-conspirators at the scene and he also claimed he saw 3 hulls near the window lined up no more than an inch apart. You think he was lying about that too, don't you? Who didn't change their story back then once they realized this was a conspiracy and their life was in danger? Weitzman comes to mind. If Craig was lying it was to out the conspiracy. And for that, you call him a mental case and you want to piss on his grave. Get help you sick bastard.

[Walt Cakebread]

I'm not the one who wants to piss on someone's grave just because he was tying to alert you about the conspiracy. Get a grip. And you don't know jack spombleprofglidnoctobuns about whether a Mauser was found in the TSBD based on whether Craig was lying about reading the barrel. Craig was apparently one of the few non-conspirators at the scene and he also claimed he saw 3 hulls near the window lined up no more than an inch apart. You think he was lying about that too, don't you? Who didn't change their story back then once they realized this was a conspiracy and their life was in danger? Weitzman comes to mind. If Craig was lying it was to out the conspiracy. And for that, you call him a mental case and you want to piss on his grave. Get help you sick bastard.

I detest Roger Craig because with his lying he he has created a huge obstacle  to getting to the truth.....   Many mini minds actually believe that the rifle was a Mauser because of Roger Craig.   They believe him and refuse to use their own God given eyes and minds.

[Gary Craig]

Walt's 6 year-old is hyperbole, but he's right. Few bolt action rifle designs have a fixed magazine that projects down from the forestock. Of those, the shape of the Carcano's is unique. You can see the shape of the mag housing clearly in the Alyea film, and there's no question that the rifle seen in the film is a Carcano.

If it's that easy to see what kind of a rifle it was, how did Boone and Weitzman not see it?
They were in the room at arm's length when it was found.

They both hand wrote reports saying it was a Mauser.
Then signed sworn notarized affidavits saying same.
In fact Weitzman signed an affidavit on the 23rd saying it was a Mauser.

The logical conclusion, IMO, if the film is so conclusive of a Carcano being found, is that there was a second rifle found that wasn't recorded on film. Or if it was,  that film was ghosted.


 

[Walt Cakebread]

If it's that easy to see what kind of a rifle it was, how did Boone and Weitzman not see it?
They were in the room at arm's length when it was found.

They both hand wrote reports saying it was a Mauser.
Then signed sworn notarized affidavits saying same.
In fact Weitzman signed an affidavit on the 23rd saying it was a Mauser.

The logical conclusion, IMO, if the film is so conclusive of a Carcano being found, is that there was a second rifle found that wasn't recorded on film. Or if it was,  that film was ghosted.

If it's that easy to see what kind of a rifle it was, how did Boone and Weitzman not see it?

It's very easy to see that the rifle was a Mannlicher Carcano...because we can use 20 /20 hindsight.... We have the ability to compare the Alyea film images against the pictures in gun books or on line gun websites.... But at the time the rifle was discovered hidden beneath the boxes of books nobody recognized the unusual rifle.  Weitzman made a WAG in attempting to identify the rifle but he was wrong.