Shells, rifle, SN... Who?

[Walt Cakebread]

Like I said, it comes down to what Hosty actually told Revill, and by extension how Revill related that to Gannaway. The point of contention in Revills memo is pretty non-specific: "they [FBI] had information that this subject was capable of committing the assassination of President Kennedy." Exactly what that means is anyone's guess. In one sense, anyone this side of Stephen Hawking would be "capable of committing the assassination." Only Hosty and Revill really know. The original point is that the subject that Curry backed down on wasn't what he'd said in the press conference, which was that the FBI hadn't told the DPD that Oswald was in town.

Where did Weitzman ever say that he was handed, or ever held, the rifle? Where did anyone else not named Roger Craig ever said they saw Weitzman handed, or ever held the, rifle? Who claimed that they saw two rifles found in the depository?
To begin with, "clip" in itself isn't a particularly specific term. Using "clip" in the sense of "en bloc  clip," Mausers simply don't use them. The Carcano uses a clip that locks into the magazine somewhere below the receiver. When the last round is chambered, the sides of the clip collapse inwards, unlocking it and (hopefully) allowing it to fall through the hole in the bottom of the magazine. Doesn't always work that way, but that's the design. This usage fits, combines with the Carcano's operating system fits Sawyer's description of a "clip which is locked on the underside of the receiver forward of the trigger guard."

Using "clip" in the sense of "stripper clip," yes, Mausers use those, but they don't lock into anything, especially on the underside of the receiver. There's a guide notch for it cut into the top of the receiver, but that's at the top, not the bottom. And it doesn't lock anything in place.  This usage, combined with the Mauser operating system, does not fit Sawyer's "clip which is locked on the underside of the receiver forward of the trigger guard."

Finally, there's "clip" in the sense of "a magazine from which ammunition is fed into the chamber of a firearm," as Mirriam-Webster says. Quite a few people use the term this way. As I've already mentioned, the Mauser model 91's have a magazine that is definitely "locked" and very conspicuously located "on the underside of the receiver forward of the trigger guard." That fits a model 91 Mauser very well, and (again) the underslung magazine is a feature that the Carcano shares.

Of the three possibilities for the definition of clip, the "Mauser-only," stripper clip explanation is the one that just doesn't work. Myself, I find it interesting that of all of the rifle's mechanical features that could be brought out, it's the magazine that gets emphasized. That strengthens the "clip=magazine" conclusion quite a bit.

Now, on the to the five-round vs six round thing. Is it a Mauser because Weitzman saw five rounds in the magazine, or did Weitzman first decide that the rifle was a Mauser, therefore it had a five-round capacity? The first possibility leads to something of a problem: if the magazine held five rounds, and Fritz ejected on from the chamber, then that rifle couldn't have fired a shot. And where did anyone say Weitzman or anyone else emptied the magazine? Or, in an alternative silliness, Did Weitzman just happen to have a fistful of ammunition of the proper caliber, and decided to top the rifle off to determine it's capacity? Neither of those "five rounds first" scenarios are satisfying. Nor is there any evidence to support them: who claimed that anyone did anything to check the magazine capacity on the rifle? The only explanation still standing is the Mauser-first one: Once Weitzman decided the rifle was a Mauser, then it held five rounds because Mausers hold five rounds. And that means the number of rounds described simply isn't probative.
Here I am bursting your bubble:

"Gun metal color, gray or blue" comes from Sayers' 11/23 report. Boone's 11/22 report says the rifle was blued. Weitzman was asked by the WC whether it was gray or blue, and he replied "blue."
So we have gray or blue, blue, and blue. That doesn't add up to gray. However, you're wrong about Mausers being gray. On '91's, the barrel, receiver, trigger, trigger guard, and magazine are all blued. Only the bolt was left au naturel. Most Mausers I've seen are that way. The exceptions that I've seen are K98K's made during WWII, and that may be due to the good ol' wartime finish, especially later in the war. My '91 was definitely blued at the factory.
Lt Day thought the rifle's wooden parts were rough: "I noted that the stock was too rough apparently to take fingerprints."

One of the best high resolution photo sets of CE139 that I know of are maintained by the National Archives, and are stored here: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/305134. It's a javascript page, so I can't directly link the images. However, you have the advantage of being able to pan and zoom as much as you want.

Another JS-limited page is here Getty:

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/passport-rifle-bullets-and-other-items-belonging-to-news-photo/50681899?adppopup=true 
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/passport-rifle-bullets-and-other-items-belonging-to-news-photo/50681902?adppopup=true

Another couple, that I can link directly to:



The wood definitely looks rough, dinged, and scratched to me, especially near the butt ends of the stock. And the wear on the edges of the safety lever at the end of the bolt knob is apparent, as well as the wear on the bolt knob.

You're kidding.....There's no damage to the bolt, and the stock isn't battered as Weitzman described....

It's not "Hollywood Optics" It's:

      4 x 18 COATED
ORDNANCE OPTICS INC
HOLLYWOOD CALIFORNIA

      010  JAPAN

Anyway, my point is that "4x18" and "JAPAN" are prominently printed on the scope in nice white letters on a black background. Easy to read without needing any real study.

 
On the leather bandolier rifle slings I've seen, the bandolier part is a fat piece that is attached to the sling proper. Like what these guys sell:

https://brassstacker.com/Rifle-Sling-and-Cartridge-Bandolier-1.html

I figure that's because the sling has to be able to be comfortably wrapped around you forearm, and a leather bandolier would be too bulky and stiff to do that.  I figure someone saw the fat oval part of the "sling" and took it from there to bandolierland.
Well, honestly, it's nice to be appreciated.

The point of contention in Revills memo is pretty non-specific: "they [FBI] had information that this subject was capable of committing the assassination of President Kennedy." Exactly what that means is anyone's guess.

A reporter for the DMN reported in an story in the DMN for April 24, 1964, that FBI special agent James Hosty told Lt. Jack Revill of the DPD that...Quote....We knew that he was capable of assassinating the president, but we didn't dream that he would do it"....unquote

According to Lt  Jack Revill   it was this statement that prompted him to report Hosty's remarks to his boss, Captain Gannaway.

[Walt Cakebread]

If I had a dollar for single every time I saw someone say that X was a Y, but it turned out to be something else, I'd be a filthy rich man. Weitzman was a guy whose expertise with rifles originates from his yearlong stint winding down a chain of discount stores. That's it. On the other hand, we have the Alyea film of Day removing the rifle and the news photos of it being taken from the TSBD.
Of what you wrote, the parts that aren't baseless assertions are just circular logic. "I'm claiming there was a conspiracy, and if there's any evidence against what I'm claiming then it's because The Conspiracy made it that way."

The very detailed description given by Seymour Weitzman cannot be dismissed as the "quick glimpse" that Weitzman said he got of the rifle as it lay on the floor beneath the boxes of books.   The fact that FBI agent A1bert Sawyers said that Captain Fritz came and took the rifle away from Weitzman, is a positive statement that Weitzman actually had the 7.65 Mauser in his hands.

We know that Fritz never took any rifle away from Weitzman in the TSBD that afternoon.....So when did Fritz present a mauser to Weitzman , and what was Fritz's motive from putting Weitzman on record as identifying  a rifle as a 7.65 Mauser??

[Bill Chapman]

At least in the context of WC apologists defending their apology.

Nah. In the context of detectives using a generic description for a bolt action rifle.

[Gary Craig]

Nah. In the context of detectives using a generic description for a bolt action rifle.

The claim being they thought it was a model 1891 Argentine Mauser because it most resembled the TSBD Carcano.
However the Argentine Mausers had easily identifiable markings.

https://gunsinthenews.com/1891-argentine-mauser-history/

~snip~

"All of the 1891 Argentine Mauser rifles and carbines were manufactured in Berlin first at Ludwig Loewe & Company, and after 1896 at Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken Aktien-Gesellschaft (“DWM”)." 



(l.)" A 90-degree turndown bolt handle was standard on carbines. (ctr.) Graduated out to 2,000 meters, the rear sight also folds flat. (r.) Rollmarked from Berlin and shipped to Argentina, , the 1891 Mauser would also have the Argentine national crest on the front receiver band. Whether made by Loewe or DWM, the 1891 Argentine Mausers are beautifully made firearms well-known for their spectacular receiver markings. In addition to the model designation and the manufacturer information,"

~snip~

[Bill Chapman]

'Coke' is a generic term, as in let's go for a Coke
'Kleenex' is a generic term for all brands of facial tissue
'Mauser' is a generic term for all bolt-action rifles
'Oswald' is a generic term for all the other shooters

[Jerry Freeman]

 

'Coke' is a generic term, as in let's go for a Coke
'Kleenex' is a generic term for all brands of facial tissue
'Mauser' is a generic term for all bolt-action rifles
'Oswald' is a generic term for all the other shooters

& 'Chapman' is a generic term for trolls.
I just couldn't help that one

[Jerry Freeman]

Avoided at every turn following his death were the statements of Lee Oswald that he had reportedly told Capt Fritz he saw a couple of rifles in the TSBD that week. Failing to recap what inspired that account...the Commissioners called Mr Warren Caster to relay his involvement in all of this.

Mr. BALL. And then you went back to work, I guess?
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I picked both rifles up in cartons just like they were, this was during the noon hour, and as I entered the Texas School Book Depository Building on my way up to the buying office, I stopped by Mr. Truly's office, and while I was there we examined the two rifles that I had purchased.
Mr. BALL. Did you take them out of the carton?
Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did.
Mr. BALL. Who was there besides you and Mr. Truly?
Mr. CASTER. Well, I'm not really sure who was there. I think you were there, Bill, and Mr. Shelley was there---and Mr. Roy Truly. The only people that I know about, in any event, were there; there were workers there at the time, but I'm not quite sure how many. I couldn't even tell you their names. I don't know the Texas School Book Depository workers there in the shipping department
Mr. BALL. In that office, though, Truly's office, how many were there?
Mr. CASTER. We weren't in Mr. Truly's immediate office, we were just there over the counter. 

Caster dodged that question. Who told him to?

Well, I'm not really sure who was there. I think you were there, Bill, and Mr. Shelley was there---and Mr. Roy Truly.

Yeah, uh Oswald being there must have slipped his mind
How many WERE there Mr Caster?
Notice how any recollection of Oswald's presence when the rifles were viewed were circumvented by the entire proceeding?
Way to go there--truth was our only client. Truth got screwed at every turn.

[Walt Cakebread]

Avoided at every turn following his death were the statements of Lee Oswald that he had reportedly told Capt Fritz he saw a couple of rifles in the TSBD that week. Failing to recap what inspired that account...the Commissioners called Mr Warren Caster to relay his involvement in all of this.  Caster dodged that question. Who told him to? Yeah, uh Oswald being there must have slipped his mind
How many WERE there Mr Caster?
Notice how any recollection of Oswald's presence when the rifles were viewed were circumvented by the entire proceeding?
Way to go there--truth was our only client. Truth got screwed at every turn.

Oswald being there must have slipped his mind

Yes...And If Lee hadn't told Fritz that he'd seen ---" ( this?) rifle and two other's"---  outside of Mr Truly's office the day before yesterday ( quote from Hosty's notes)  The police would never have known about Mr Caster's rifles.....