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Author Topic: Don't get bit.....  (Read 16618 times)

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Don't get bit.....
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2020, 04:17:28 PM »
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I have affidavits and investigation reports from Boone and Weitzman saying they found a 7.65 Mauser.

You have a grainy black and white piece of film showing LT Day picking up what appears to be a Mannlicher Carcano.

I have affidavits and investigation reports from Boone and Weitzman saying they found a 7.65 Mauser.

Are you referring to the affidavits that say .... The rifle "APPEARED TO BE" a 7.65 Mauser?     

You have a grainy black and white piece of film showing LT Day picking up what appears to be a Mannlicher Carcano.

Of course you're limiting the photographic evidence to a single frame of Alyea's film..... When in fact there is more of his film which shows Detective Day holding the MANNLICHER CARCANO up in plain sight.....And there is more Alyea footage whish shows Detective Day dusting a MANNLICHER CARCANO looking for finger prints on the rifle, and then there are several photos of Detective Day carrying a MANNLICHER CARCANO on the sidewalk in front of the TSBD as he departs to take the CARCANO to the DPD crime lab.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Don't get bit.....
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2020, 04:17:28 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Don't get bit.....
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2020, 08:00:21 PM »
I have affidavits and investigation reports from Boone and Weitzman saying they found a 7.65 Mauser.

Are you referring to the affidavits that say .... The rifle "APPEARED TO BE" a 7.65 Mauser?     

You have a grainy black and white piece of film showing LT Day picking up what appears to be a Mannlicher Carcano.

Of course you're limiting the photographic evidence to a single frame of Alyea's film..... When in fact there is more of his film which shows Detective Day holding the MANNLICHER CARCANO up in plain sight.....And there is more Alyea footage whish shows Detective Day dusting a MANNLICHER CARCANO looking for finger prints on the rifle, and then there are several photos of Detective Day carrying a MANNLICHER CARCANO on the sidewalk in front of the TSBD as he departs to take the CARCANO to the DPD crime lab.

Play it again, Sam....

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Don't get bit.....
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2020, 12:04:15 AM »
Vallee is intriguing because of the similarities to Oswald.

Both were former Marines who had served at bases in Japan that hosted the U2.  Both had been involved with anti-Castro Cubans.  Both had recently started jobs overlooking a presidential motorcade route.  Both were accused of assassination plots.  The FBI in Chicago was reportedly tipped off by an informant named "Lee".

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Re: Don't get bit.....
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2020, 12:04:15 AM »


Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Don't get bit.....
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2020, 12:36:58 AM »
Vallee is intriguing because of the similarities to Oswald.

Both were former Marines who had served at bases in Japan that hosted the U2.  Both had been involved with anti-Castro Cubans.  Both had recently started jobs overlooking a presidential motorcade route.  Both were accused of assassination plots.  The FBI in Chicago was reportedly tipped off by an informant named "Lee".

Then why did James Douglass "oversell" the Vallee story?

Quote
JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters - Page 203 books.google.com › books
J
ames W. Douglass - 2010
FOUND INSIDE - PAGE 203
Why He Died and Why It Matters James W. Douglass ... license plate on the 1962 Ford Falcon he was driving: 31–10RF.151 A few days after President Kennedy's assassination, NBC News in Chicago learned about Vallee's arrest on the same ...



Quote
http://22november1963.org.uk/jfk-assassination-plot-chicago
......
Edwin Black: ‘The Plot to Kill JFK in Chicago’
The main source of information about the Chicago plot is an article by the investigative journalist, Edwin Black, ‘The Plot to Kill JFK in Chicago’, Chicago Independent, November 1975, which is available in various formats at:

scribd.com
archive.org
thechicagoplot.com
Black’s main source was a former Secret Service agent, Abraham Bolden, who was also interviewed by James Douglass for his book, JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters, Orbis Books, 2008; see pp.200–207, 213–217.

Abraham Bolden and the Secret Service
.......

The House Select Committee on Assassinations investigated Bolden’s account of events in Chicago. It pointed out that “no agent who had been assigned to Chicago confirmed any aspect of Bolden’s version”, which it found to be of “questionable authenticity” http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=69299 (HSCA Report, pp.231f).

Quote
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKbolden.htm
Abraham Bolden
....
....According to Bolden, the Chicago Secret Service office received a teletype from the FBI shortly before Kennedy's November 2 visit warning that an assassination attempt would be carried out in that city by a four-man Cuban hit squad armed with high-powered rifles. Bolden said the entire office was involved in this matter, but that it was kept top secret.

Years later, Bolden could not identify Vallee as a participant in this threat, and the belief among researchers is that Vallee played no part in the second assassination plan.....

On page #4 of a 1977 letter to Rep. Louis Stokes from Amos Peacock :

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/H%20Disk/Heacock%20Amos%20E/Item%2001.pdf


Versus:

Church Committee asked for this document, in 1975, (two years before letter above) see bottom of page: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=148779&relPageId=2&search="chris_hester"

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62272&relPageId=50&search=nycpd_and%20larkin








Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_U-2#First_overflights_of_Communist_territory

..... The CIA told the president that the Soviets could not track high-altitude U-2 flights; this belief was based on studies using old Soviet radar systems and American systems that were not as effective at high altitudes as current Soviet systems, of which the U.S. was not aware. Knutson later said that "the U-2 was really quite invisible to American radar, but Russian radar were a little different – better, you might say". Although the Office of Scientific Intelligence issued a more cautious report in May 1956 that stated that detection was possible, it believed that the Soviets could not consistently track the aircraft. Dulles further told Eisenhower, according to presidential aide Andrew Goodpaster, that in any aircraft loss the pilot would almost certainly not survive. With such assurances and the growing demand for accurate intelligence regarding the alleged "bomber gap" between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, in June 1956 Eisenhower approved 10 days of overflights.[61][28]

The first U-2 overflight had already occurred, using existing authorization of air force overflights over Eastern Europe. On 20 June 1956, a U-2 flew over Poland and East Germany, with more flights on 2 July....
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 01:20:43 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Don't get bit.....
« Reply #60 on: April 10, 2020, 04:29:47 AM »
Then why did James Douglass "oversell" the Vallee story?

Don’t know. He didn’t consult me. I haven’t even read his book yet.

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Re: Don't get bit.....
« Reply #60 on: April 10, 2020, 04:29:47 AM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Don't get bit.....
« Reply #61 on: April 10, 2020, 04:25:37 PM »
Don’t know. He didn’t consult me. I haven’t even read his book yet.

The book isn't that great.....IMO  It's a rather boring book that doesn't reveal anything new.....

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Don't get bit.....
« Reply #62 on: April 10, 2020, 11:39:45 PM »
Don’t know. He didn’t consult me. I haven’t even read his book yet.

Dealey Plaza Echo, Volume 6, Issue 3
Current Section: A Rough Guide to Oswald Lookalikes (Part VI), by Mark Bridger

(Right column of page) Thomas Arthur Vallee

First page - 14 - https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16249&search=vallee_and+otsu#relPageId=18&tab=page

page - 17 - https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16249&search=vallee_and+otsu#relPageId=32&tab=page

Points out that Vallee was at Camp Otsu, likely at the base hospital, in 1951, later a U2 base like Atsugi.

page -25 - https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16249&search=vallee_and+otsu#relPageId=29&tab=page

Describes FBI "freeze" on NY license plate number registration info request, bur does not add the information confirming the plate number was allegedly a NY registraton in the name of Vallee.
SEE: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62272&search=nycpd_and+larkin#relPageId=51&tab=page

Last pages - 26- https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16249&search=vallee_and+otsu#relPageId=30&tab=page
- page 28 - https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16249&search=vallee_and+otsu#relPageId=32&tab=page
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 11:43:05 PM by Tom Scully »

Offline Alan J. Ford

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Re: Don't get bit.....
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2020, 03:41:02 PM »
Like many, I have a lot of extra free time now, which I spend wisely on reading, modelling and playing Twilight in the East. And on a return to this fine Forum.

Let me try to respond to your request for "good, intelligent posts to respond to."

One, it seems fatal, flaw in the Oswald-the-patsy theory is that the entire cunning plan to murder the President collapses if the designated patsy fails to show up at the desired location on the day and time of the planned assassination.

So if Oswald had called in sick that day, or had been in hospital after a car accident while riding in Frazier's car, or for whatever other reason had NOT gone to the TSBD on November 22nd, 1963, the assassination would have to been called off or postponed. Unless there was a Plan B.

Was there? Who was the alternative patsy and were his credentials similar to Oswald's?

More than a few excellent points there, Mr. Van De Wiel, thanks for sharing.

In respect to an alternative patsy and/or a stable of potential patsies, we have to consider if Bonnie Ray Williams; Jack Dougherty and/or the man Marrion Baker encountered in his same day affidavit were cleverly lured/placed into position ---->

AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS

BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared M. L. Baker, Patrolman Dallas Police Department who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

Friday November 22, 1963 I was riding motorcycle escort for the President of the United States. At approximately 12:30 pm I was on Houston Street and the President's car had made a left turn from Houston onto Elm Street. Just as I approached Elm Street and Houston I heard three shots. I realized those shots were rifle shots and I began to try to figure out where they came from. I decided the shots had come from the building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston. This building is used by the Board of Education for book storage. I jumped off my motor and ran inside the building. As I entered the door I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were. A man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were. I followed the man to the rear of the building and he said, "Let's take the elevator." The elevator was hung several floors up so we used the stairs instead. As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

s/ M. L. Baker

SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963

/s/ Mary Rattan

Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas


The interesting thing here is we are left to wonder if the aforementioned individuals and their respective movements eliminated them as pasties ---->

Bonnie Ray Williams left his position on the sixth floor in a nick of time to join "Junior" Jarman and Harold Norman down on the 5th floor; Jack Dougherty left the upper floors, taking an elevator downstairs before the authorities arrived; and, when one considers the man Baker encounters above the 2nd floor, we know he isn't anyone established in Commission Exhibit 1381 (where all of the employees state their actual positions while actually viewing the presidential-parade, Yet the building-super' Roy Truly says the following about this fellow, quote,  "I know that man, he works here."

Critical-thinkers know this encounter wasn't with the wrongly accused, because this man according to Baker in his same day affidavit wrote, quote, I saw a man walking away from the stairway. Major difference between walking away from a stairway and the inside of a lunchroom.

The mystery here is two-fold: Who is this man? and, Was he lured in position upon the upper floors, but "saw the light" as things begin unfolding and got out of Dodge via the stairway where he encounters Baker? Did Truly, fearing this man would blow the whole plot out in the open, vouch for him in return for his silence? There's more to this case than a lone gunman with a satchel full of magic-bullets...

The wrongly accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.





« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 04:00:37 PM by Alan J. Ford »

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Re: Don't get bit.....
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2020, 03:41:02 PM »