The real 6th floor shooter - what chance of escape?

[Ross Lidell]

Know many paid assassins, do you?

There were no clocks at the TSBD?

This entire thread is about assumptions.... Mainly yours!

And I am indeed on to something; your inability to have a normal conversation without misrepresentations, making up stuff, strawman tactics and an unwillingness to consider counter arguments.

Know many paid assassins, do you?

What do you mean by that immaterial statement?

There were no clocks at the TSBD?

Were they accurate? 

This entire thread is about assumptions.... Mainly yours!

Of course there are assumptions. If Lee Harvey Oswald was not the 6th floor assassin, some other shooter has to be. That's a logical assumption.

... an unwillingness to consider counter arguments.

What's your argument?

[Martin Weidmann]

So the real 6th floor assassin (you don't accept that it's Oswald) used a different rifle than Oswald's Carcano? What rifle was that?

Stop the strawman crap. I never said any of this. We are in hypothetical mode since the opening post had way too many assumptions for any other kind of discussion.

Not a strawman: Holding you to a responsibility to provide a realistic alternative scenario to the the historical record which you do not believe. You don't appear to believe Oswald's Carcano was the assassination weapon. You can either admit that it was or posit some other gun. Something like: "There was another gun but I don't know what it was" will do.

Please STFU about proof.... You only demand proof but never provide. I have no responsibility to which you can hold me to. I am not dancing to the crappy music you play on a daily basis. 

I never said that I believe the Carcano was not the assassination weapon. It could have been, but I don't know and the evidence for it is very weak indeed. I also do not know whether the Corcano found on the 6th floor belonged to Oswald. Again, I simply do not know and the evidence that it was is simply not persuasive enough. But I better stop now, because otherwise your little mind might explode....

The fragments recovered from Connally's arm at Parkland hospital by themselves were enough to reach the conclusion.

Not true. No measurement no absolute conclusion. You're just guessing.

Well guessing is something you know everything about, so I'll bow to your vast experience in that field.

The main point was that none of the three bullets that were allegedly fired from the 6th floor were ever matched to the MC rifle.

One almost whole bullet and two pieces of one bullet were matched to Oswald's Carcano rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons. By whom? Frazier of the FBI and Nicol of the Illinois Bureau of Criminal Investigation.

One almost whole bullet and two pieces of one bullet were matched to Oswald's Carcano rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons.

Who put another dime in the freakin' machine? It's playing the same old crappy song again.

You simply will not listen or even try to understand. There is no evidence that CE399 was fired on 11/22/63 and there is no evidence that the bullet fragments given to Frazier, which they told him were removed from the limo prior to his forensic examination, were in fact bullet fragments from the limo.

In other words, you need to assume first that CE399 was indeed fired buy the MC rifle in 11/22/63 and that the bullet fragments did indeed come from the limo, before you can make any kind of claim. Now go and get a wet towel and try to keep cool when you try to process this information.... on the other hand, never mind. You will dismiss it outright anyway

[Martin Weidmann]

Know many paid assassins, do you?

What do you mean by that immaterial statement?

You made the idiotic claim that "A paid assassin could not abort.".... now either you watch too many movies or you know at least one paid assassin. Or, alternatively, you just made it up for the sake of argument. What is it?

By the way, it was a question, not a statement. You do know what a question mark means, don't you?

There were no clocks at the TSBD?

Were they accurate? 

Does it matter?

This entire thread is about assumptions.... Mainly yours!

Of course there are assumptions. If Lee Harvey Oswald was not the 6th floor assassin, some other shooter has to be. That's a logical assumption.

Why is that a "logical" assumption? Let me guess, because you assume that the shots that killed Kennedy were fired from the 6th floor of the TSBD, right?

So, your "logical" assumption is only "logical" if the assumption it is based on is also "logical".... and so on..... Aren't assumptions fun?

... an unwillingness to consider counter arguments.

What's your argument?

Thanks for confirming my point

[Ross Lidell]

Please STFU about proof.... You only demand proof but never provide. I have no responsibility to which you can hold me to. I am not dancing to the crappy music you play on a daily basis. 

I never said that I believe the Carcano was not the assassination weapon. It could have been, but I don't know and the evidence for it is very weak indeed. I also do not know whether the Corcano found on the 6th floor belonged to Oswald. Again, I simply do not know and the evidence that is was is simply not persuasive enough. But I better stop now, because otherwise your little mind might explode....

Well guessing is something you know everything about, so I'll bow to your vast experience in that field.

One almost whole bullet and two pieces of one bullet were matched to Oswald's Carcano rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons.

Who put another dime in the freakin' machine? It's playing the same old crappy song again.

You simply will not listen or even try to understand. There is no evidence that CE399 was fired on 11/22/63 and there is no evidence that the bullet fragments given to Frazier, which they told him were removed from the limo prior to his forensic examination, were in fact bullet fragments from the limo.

In other words, you need to assume first that CE399 was indeed fired buy the MC rifle in 11/22/63 and that the bullet fragments did indeed come from the limo, before you can make any kind of claim. Now go and get a wet towl and try to keep cool when you try to process this information.... on the other hand, never mind. You will dismiss it outright anyway

You're losing it Marty. Why? Because you're not used to a mentally strong individual refusing to back down to your bluster.

You have no evidence to support your wild claims.

You don't understand that investigators reach "conclusions" based on the most likely possibility.

Without going into details (they are part of the historical record): The most likely conclusion is that CE399 was fired on 22 November 1963 at 12:30 PM (approximately) from Oswald's Carcano rifle. Any alternative scenario requires it to be fired in the same rifle previous to the time of the assassination. There is zero evidence for such a theory.

No investigator is going to discard the conclusion that CE399 is linked to the assassination and support unjustified speculation that it was fired previously and planted at Parkland Hospital.

Your problem (psychological) is that you think your dismissal of evidence related to the assassination of President Kennedy and the murder of J.D. Tippit does not require alternative explanations: It does.

Often, your dismissals of evidence require law enforcement officers to depart from previously good behavior and become part of a massive conspiracy to murder JFK--with no motive to do so. Like the veiled suggestion that Secret Service agents handed fake evidence to the FBI: Pieces of bullets ostensibly from the presidential limousine that were likely obtained somewhere else.

Other fragments of bullets were allegedly found in the limo, but this we will also never know for sure, because when the FBI Forensic team arrived at the Secret Service garage to examine the limo, they were told it had already been done and they were given some bullet fragments that supposedly came from the car.

So what's sinister about that? Was there an agreement that the Secret Service agents would wait for the FBI to come and conduct the search for evidence? Unless there was, the statement is immaterial. It's also delusional. 

I've got your number Marty, have had for a long time. When debating (that's debatable!) you cunningly don't provide any details of "how, what, when, where, why, who": You simply dismiss all the evidence in the historical record because you don't like it. The alternative would be that you are a type of "troller" amusing yourself and imagining that you possess a great intellect.

[John Iacoletti]

Now what?

Same problems (stairs timing) existed for the real 6th floor shooter as did for Oswald. Now what?

Here's the thing you're not getting, Ross.  Oswald is the only one who has to be in the second floor lunchroom 75-90 seconds after the last shot.  That requirement would not exist for any other shooter.

[Martin Weidmann]

You're losing it Marty. Why? Because you're not used to a mentally strong individual refusing to back down to your bluster.

You have no evidence to support your wild claims.

You don't understand that investigators reach "conclusions" based on the most likely possibility.

Without going into details (they are part of the historical record): The most likely conclusion is that CE399 was fired on 22 November 1963 at 12:30 PM (approximately) from Oswald's Carcano rifle. Any alternative scenario (which must exist) requires it to be fired in the same rifle previous to the time of the assassination. There is zero evidence for such a theory.

No investigator is going to discard the conclusion that CE399 is linked to the assassination and support unjustified speculation that it was fired previously and planted at Parkland Hospital.

Your problem (psychological) is that you think your dismissal of evidence related to the assassination of President Kennedy and the murder of J.D. Tippit does not require alternative explanations: They do.

Your dismissals of evidence require law enforcement officers to depart from previously good behavior and become part of a massive conspiracy to murder JFK--with no motive to do so.  Like the veiled suggestion that Secret Service agents handing pieces of bullets from the presidential limousine to the FBI were not authentic but likely obtained somewhere else.

Other fragments of bullets were allegedly found in the limo, but this we will also never know for sure, because when the FBI Forensic team arrived at the Secret Service garage to examine the limo, they were told it had already been done and they were given some bullet fragments that supposedly came from the car.

So what's sinister about that? Was there an agreement that the Secret Service agents would wait for the FBI to come and conduct the search for evidence? Unless there was, the statement is immaterial. It's also delusional. 

I've got your number Marty, have had for a long time. When debating (that's debatable!) you cunningly don't provide any details of "how, what, when, where, why, who": You simply dismiss all the evidence in the historical record because you don't like it. The alternative would be that you are a type of troller amusing yourself and imagining that you possess a great intellect.

You're losing it Marty. Why? Because you're not used to a mentally strong individual refusing to back down to your bluster.

A mentally strong individual would consider counter arguments and have a proper discussion for the purpose of clarification. Only a fool does not back down!

You have no evidence to support your wild claims.

Since I don't make wild claims (they are all in your head), I don't need to have evidence.

Without going into details (they are part of the historical record): The most likely conclusion is that CE399 was fired on 22 November 1963 at 12:30 PM (approximately) from Oswald's Carcano rifle. Any alternative scenario (which must exist) requires it to be fired in the same rifle previous to the time of the assassination. There is zero evidence for such a theory.

There he goes again.... the same old song about "the most likely conclusion". It's only the "most likely conclusion" for you, because you agree with it.
Your so called "logic" lacks real logic.

No investigator is going to discard the conclusion that CE399 is linked to the assassination and support unjustified speculation that it was fired previously and planted at Parkland Hospital.

There you go again.... Who ever said that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital? But that's probably way over your head...

Your problem (psychological) is that you think your dismissal of evidence related to the assassination of President Kennedy and the murder of J.D. Tippit does not require alternative explanations: They do.

So, now you know what I think? Really?..... Are you sure you and Richard Smith aren't related?

Btw I don't dismiss anything, I just ask questions that you can not answer.

Your dismissals of evidence require law enforcement officers to depart from previously good behavior and become part of a massive conspiracy to murder JFK--with no motive to do so.  Like the veiled suggestion that Secret Service agents handing pieces of bullets from the presidential limousine to the FBI were not authentic but likely obtained somewhere else.

How do you know they were from previous good behavior?..... Nah, don't answer that, I'm only yanking your chain. I could tell you that you are missing the point again, but it would be a waste of my time. You are never gonna get it anyway.

Other fragments of bullets were allegedly found in the limo, but this we will also never know for sure, because when the FBI Forensic team arrived at the Secret Service garage to examine the limo, they were told it had already been done and they were given some bullet fragments that supposedly came from the car.

So what's sinister about that? Was there an agreement that the Secret Service agents would wait for the FBI to come and conduct the search for evidence? Unless there was, the statement is immaterial. It's also delusional. 

To you, none of it is sinister and it never will be. To those of us with a functional brain it's obvious that you do not contaminate a crime scene before the forensic specialist of the FBI show up to do that job. Secret Service agents are not forensic specialists. They completely f*cked up the crime scene, which is why there are only a few photographs of the car in the record. Believing that there is no problem when people who are clueless in documenting evidence start going through a crime scene is what is really delusional. It's also the best indicator that your are completely clueless when it comes to law enforcement and investigations.

I've got your number Marty, have had for a long time. When debating (that's debatable!) you cunningly don't provide any details of "how, what, when, where, why, who": You simply dismiss all the evidence in the historical record because you don't like it. The alternative would be that you are a type of troller amusing yourself and imagining that you possess a great intellect.

Yeah, you've got my number alright. Just about everything you just said is wrong, but other than that, you've got my number. 

[John Iacoletti]

Not a strawman: Holding you to a responsibility to provide a realistic alternative scenario to the the historical record which you do not believe. You don't appear to believe Oswald's Carcano was the assassination weapon. You can either admit that it was or posit some other gun. Something like: "There was another gun but I don't know what it was" will do.

This is just you very transparently trying to shift the burden of proof.  "Historical record" doesn't mean squat.  History is written by the victors.

P.S. "Oswald's Carcano".  LOL.

[Martin Weidmann]

Here's the thing you're not getting, Ross.  Oswald is the only one who has to be in the second floor lunchroom 75-90 seconds after the last shot.  That requirement would not exist for any other shooter.

That's not the only thing he isn't getting......