If Oswald Was The Assassin, Did He Plan His Escape From The TSBD Very Well?

[Martin Weidmann]

Jarman HSCA
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14ehe1U2NRMt4Usp5qkf8WedLSxoohL7m/view

 

It seems v. likely that Mr Lovelady remained on the steps that Mr Shelley had just left. (A little while later that day, Mr Lovelady would tell Mr James Jarman that he saw Mr Oswald confronted by a police officer at the front door-----and cleared by Mr Roy Truly. Postal Inspector Harry D. Holmes heard Mr Oswald tell Captain Fritz about this same front-of-house incident.)

I have now read the Jarman HSCA testimony as well as all sorts of other information on the subject of Shelley and Lovelady I came across while searching with google. I must say that if what Jarman said is true, it's a complete game changer. If Oswald indeed exited the building when Truly and Baker were still on the steps of the entrance, it means that Oswald must have left the building in less than 30 seconds after the shots, making it physically impossible for him to be the shooter on the 6th floor and reducing the lunchroom encounter between Baker and Oswald to the realm of fiction. 

[Dan O'meara]

Thank you, Mr O'Meara! 

Are you suggesting this guy is Mr Shelley?---------------------



Way too large, surely!

Mr Shelley appears not to have remained on the steps. Either he really did run into Ms Calvery at the corner of the park (as per his 11/22 affidavit), or his affidavit statement uses her (a personal friend) as cover to hide the fact that he immediately after the shooting went back in the building. Let's not forget what Officer Baker let slip to the WC: that he saw two white men on the first floor when he was crossing it with Mr Truly. 

Shelley wears an over-size, baggy black suit. You can get an idea of it if you go through individual frames of this video -

- in the first image you posted he looks a lot skinnier than he does in the second. For the work done by Sandy Larsen and Tommy Graves on identifying this as the moment Gloria Calvery tells Lovelady about the assassination go to this site - http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25790-the-identification-of-gloria-calvery-in-zapruder-and-darnell/

[Martin Weidmann]

Please show me where I've written that.
A more reasonable interpretation of what I wrote would be as follows (remembering this is a purely speculative point) - if Adams/Styles are on the pavement/sidewalk moving towards the TSBD front entrance and Shelley/Lovelady are on the same pavement/sidewalk moving towards the railroad yard it would be inconceivable that they would not have some type of interaction. If, as seems to be the case, they were walking down the same street but, more or less, on opposite sides, with cars in between them, the chances of them not noticing each other rise dramatically - there's lots of people running round, they might be deeply engaged in conversation etc.
I am not saying and did not say they would be obscured from each other by a row of cars. That it a really strange interpretation of the point I was making (as far as I'm concerned)

Dan, I merely asked for clarification of what you were saying.

[Alan Ford]

I have now read the Jarman HSCA testimony as well as all sorts of other information on the subject of Shelley and Lovelady I came across while searching with google. I must say that if what Jarman said is true, it's a complete game changer. If Oswald indeed exited the building when Truly and Baker were still on the steps of the entrance, it means that Oswald must have left the building in less than 30 seconds after the shots, making it physically impossible for him to be the shooter on the 6th floor and reducing the lunchroom encounter between Baker and Oswald to the realm of fiction.

But we now know that Mr Oswald claimed to have gone "outside to watch the P. parade". Along with an increasing number of people, I believe that's precisely what he did.

If so, then it would seem that Mr Lovelady----------
a) didn't notice Mr Oswald standing near him at the time of the shooting (--->he would tell the HSCA that Mr Oswald could have been there without his having noticed him)
b) just after the shooting, did notice Officer Baker and Mr Truly running past him and up the steps
c) turning around in response to this and looking back up the steps, did see (i) Officer Baker appearing to confront Mr Oswald who (being at the front door) appeared to be only now exiting... (ii) Mr Truly appearing to 'clear' Mr Oswald with the officer
d) misconstrued the encounter between Mr Oswald and the officer as Mr Oswald being stopped on his way out of the building.

In reality, Officer Baker was just asking Mr Oswald did he work here (-------> could he tell him where the nearest stairs were).

Remember! The DPD were happily telling the press on 11/22 that Mr Oswald was 'stopped' at the front door---------just as police were rushing in. Only when it was established (later that evening) that Officer Baker had entered the building barely half a minute after the last shot, the lunchroom hoax was created in order to destroy Mr Oswald's rock-solid alibi.

 

[Alan Ford]

Shelley wears an over-size, baggy black suit. You can get an idea of it if you go through individual frames of this video -

- in the first image you posted he looks a lot skinnier than he does in the second. For the work done by Sandy Larsen and Tommy Graves on identifying this as the moment Gloria Calvery tells Lovelady about the assassination go to this site - http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25790-the-identification-of-gloria-calvery-in-zapruder-and-darnell/

I'm well aware of what Mr Shelley looked like in that suit, and there's no way this guy is him---------------

[Martin Weidmann]

But we now know that Mr Oswald claimed to have gone "outside to watch the P. parade". Along with an increasing number of people, I believe that's precisely what he did.

If so, then it would seem that Mr Lovelady----------
a) didn't notice Mr Oswald standing near him at the time of the shooting (--->he would tell the HSCA that Mr Oswald could have been there without his having noticed him)
b) just after the shooting, did notice Officer Baker and Mr Truly running past him and up the steps
c) turning around in response to this and looking back up the steps, did see (i) Officer Baker appearing to confront Mr Oswald who (being at the front door) appeared to be only now exiting... (ii) Mr Truly appearing to 'clear' Mr Oswald with the officer
d) misconstrued the encounter between Mr Oswald and the officer as Mr Oswald being stopped on his way out of the building.

In reality, Officer Baker was just asking Mr Oswald did he work here (-------> could he tell him where the nearest stairs were).

Remember! The DPD were happily telling the press on 11/22 that Mr Oswald was 'stopped' at the front door---------just as police were rushing in. Only when it was established (later that evening) that Officer Baker had entered the building barely half a minute after the last shot, the lunchroom hoax was created in order to destroy Mr Oswald's rock-solid alibi.

 

If you are right, why do you think Truly went along with the lunchroom hoax? He already mentioned the encounter in his first affidavit.

[Alan Ford]

If you are right, why do you think Truly went along with the lunchroom hoax? He already mentioned the encounter in his first affidavit.

Presumably he was pressured into the lie by the 'investigating' authorities. Given that he appears to have cleared a non-employee whom Officer Baker had caught walking away from the stairway at least one floor above the second floor (see Baker's 11/22 affidavit), one can only imagine that he was only too happy to play ball!

[Martin Weidmann]

Presumably he was pressured into the lie by the 'investigating' authorities. Given that he appears to have cleared a non-employee whom Officer Baker had caught walking away from the stairway at least one floor above the second floor (see Baker's 11/22 affidavit), one can only imagine that he was only too happy to play ball!

And implicate an employee in a murder Truly knew - in your scenario - he couldn't have committed?

And what about all the other people on the stairs who also must have seen Baker running towards the building and interacting with Oswald and Truly? How could Truly be sure they all would keep their mouths shut or tell the same story as he?