Free Book Now Available -- Hasty Judgment: Why the JFK Case Is Not Closed

[Tim Nickerson]

Terms "master book" and "control book" both used by Scibor.

Ok, I see it now.

Wrong, only acceptable if mirrored in the master book.

Prove it.

You still seem confused.

Well, yeah. You aren't making any sense.

Who's "we"?

Tim Nickerson and Otto Beck.

See above.

See above.

[Tim Nickerson]

There's nothing to prove, it's pure logic.

Your logic is somewhat lacking. When you return a purchased item to a store for a refund do you bring two copies of the receipt with you?

If W4 is an actual copy the content of the original prior to being destroyed would have been entered into the master book.

Waldman 4 is an actual copy of the original. Another copy was sent to the booking department where it was entered into a master book. Either one of those two copies would suffice as Klein's record of the serial numbers. In fact, Waldman No. 3 would probably suffice as a record of the serial numbers as well.

The check was/is needed because the W4 content itself suggest it's faked.

How exactly does the content of Waldman #4 suggest that it is fake?

[John Mytton]

This is really simple, Scibor who at the time was the General Operating Manager with 18 years experience at Kleins was well aware of how to access Kleins business records and where to go and find the receiving information so at a future date they could identify any particular gun, identify where it came from and identify when they initially handled the gun.

Step 1 Locate the order.

Mr. SCIBOR. Yes; we used two machines and looked at the microfilms of our sales until we had found that particular gun with the serial number.
Mr. BELIN. You were upstairs when Mr. Waldman was looking at the microfilm of which a printed copy is Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 7; is that correct?
Mr. SCIBOR. Correct.

Step 2 Locate the receiving record of the order for future identification.

Mr. BELIN. Now, I'm going to hand you what has been marked as Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 4 and ask you to state if you know what this is.
Mr. SCIBOR. Yes; it's a copy of our receiving record which we use to identify firearms or guns by assigning a weapon a particular booking number or control number along with the serial number so at a future date we can identify that particular gun.
......
Mr. BELIN. Where is Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 4 filed customarily?
Mr. SCIBOR. That is filed in a desk drawer back in the receiving department, which I designated that those should be filed.
......
Mr. BELIN. And do you find on Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 4 your control number for a rifle with the serial number C-2766?
Mr. SCIBOR. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. What is your control number?
Mr. SCIBOR. VC-836.

[John Mytton]

Wow, if it's that simple how come Johnny got the two steps reversed?

Only a complete fool would spend the night scanning micro film looking for an order if Klein's never stocked C 2766. Waldman actually got the narrative right:

Mr. BELIN. Did the FBI indicate at what time, what period that they felt you might have received this rifle originally?
Mr. WALDMAN. We were able to determine from our purchase records the date in which the rifle had been received, and they also had a record of when it had been shipped, so we knew the approximate date of receipt by us, and from that we made---let's see, we examined our microfilm records which show orders from mail order customers and related papers, and from this determined to whom the gun had been shipped by us.

Mytton meltdown for everyone to enjoy -- ROFL

Wow, if it's that simple how come Johnny got the two steps reversed?

Admittedly in my haste, I should have clarified my original post and can see how you would erroneously come to that conclusion but I was describing that there was two steps to linking Kleins business records to any particular customer. One of the steps I wrote makes this clear by my heading of "Locate the receiving record of the order for future identification."

Only a complete fool would spend the night scanning micro film looking for an order if Klein's never stocked C 2766. Waldman actually got the narrative right:

We know Kleins stocked C2766 because the reason the FBI contacted Kleins in the first place was because the FBI had a record that Crescent shipped Kleins C2766* and Waldman could indeed have searched all of their microfilms to find the Hidell order but as Waldman tells us he initially narrowed down the approx dates of his search by locating Kleins purchase records. 

Mr. BELIN. Do you know how the FBI happened to contact you or your company?
Mr. WALDMAN. The FBI had a record of a gun of this type and with this serial number having been shipped to us by Crescent Firearms.

*I, Louis Feldsott, being duly sworn say:
1. I am the President of Crescent Firearms, Inc., 2 West 37th Street, New York 18, New York.
2. On November 22, 1963, the F.B.I. contacted me and asked if Crescent Firearms, Inc., had any records concerning the sale of an Italian made 6.5 m/m rifle with the serial number C 2766.
3. I was able to find a record of the sale of this rifle which indicated that the weapon had been sold to Kleins' Sporting Goods, Inc., Chicago, Illinois on June 18, 1962. I conveyed this information to the F.B.I. during the evening of November 22, 1963.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/feldsot.htm

Mytton meltdown for everyone to enjoy -- ROFL

Sorry, but you're the one who's struggling and failing to provide a legal precedent that a master control book must be presented in addition to the comprehensive corroborating Kleins business records that Waldman supplied.

JohnM

[Tim Nickerson]

False analogy.

Is not. It's a perfect analogy.

No supporting evidence for that claim without checking the master book.

Nonsense.

It wasn't a copy (as stated in the testimony, mistake?), it was the original, according to the FBI report.

Sworn testimony vs FBI report. It makes no difference either way. The original was destroyed. Both the copy that became Waldman 4 and the copy entered into the master book were made off of the original.

Suffice, how?

Because both contain Klein's record of the serial numbers. That are both duplicates of the original.

Wrong order of serial numbers.

LOL...What??

[Tim Nickerson]

More like a Joe Biden moment.

Mindlessly repeating a claim doesn't make it true.

Which means that IF there were a genuine original record W4 and the master book should be in agreement.

If not, W4 is a fake.

Only way to make sure W4 is not a fake is to check the master book.

How do we make sure that the master book isn't fake? You CTs are clownish.

But the Waldman 3 slips were not Klein's, you didn't know that?

Waldman 3 was Klein's. The slips on that exhibit were in their possession.

Serial numbers are expected to be grouped according to the slips in Waldman 3.

As the FBI says, the control numbers were assigned as the guns were taken from the case.

The FBI does not say that the serial numbers were grouped according to the slips in Waldman 3. I wouldn't expect them to necessarily be grouped according to the slips.

[John Mytton]

How do we make sure that the master book isn't fake? You CTs are clownish.

Yep, down into the rabbit hole we descend and on and on and on it goes and when we hit the bottom of the available evidence the next step is that the mountain of evidence is faked unless we can prove otherwise, then we have to produce the person who wrote the evidence because otherwise it's faked, then we have to present the person who sent the evidence because otherwise it's faked and on and on that goes..... It truly is never ending, there will never be enough evidence to satisfy a hardcore CT.



JohnM

[Tim Nickerson]

Yep, down into the rabbit hole we descend and on and on and on it goes and when we hit the bottom of the available evidence the next step is that the mountain of evidence is faked unless we can prove otherwise, then we have to produce the person who wrote the evidence because otherwise it's faked, then we have to present the person who sent the evidence because otherwise it's faked and on and on that goes..... It truly is never ending, there will never be enough evidence to satisfy a hardcore CT.



JohnM

It's turtles all the way down.