Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories  (Read 53732 times)

Offline Joe Elliott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1727
Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #128 on: July 16, 2020, 01:51:58 AM »
Advertisement

Dan, yes that’s it, good eye.  I saw it on some MPI frames but it is on this gif as well.

The cuff disappears down the same time the orientation of his hat starts changing around, presumably following the wrist/hand motion.
 
To me it looks like the wrist was driven down after aperture closure of z222 and before it opened for frame z223.

I agree his wrist orientation a few frames later looks weird. I had heard he held the hat all the way to Parkland. Perhaps wrist strength/flexure and finger grasping strength/flexure are different enough to allow a finger grasp to exist after wrist damage.

This is correct. In the book “The JFK Myths” Larry SPersonivan explains that the bullet shattered only one of the two forearm bones, the radius, but not the other bone, the ulna.  One nerve was cut, but it was a sensory nerve, not a motor control nerve, so he was still capable of holding the hat, and is seen still holding his hat just after the head shot at z312 when a few frames later the wrist and the hat drop below view. But his wife said he held onto the hat all the way to the hospital.

So, I would suspect he would not have been able to hold up a bowling ball but keeping a grip on the hat was no problem.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #128 on: July 16, 2020, 01:51:58 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 929
Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #129 on: July 16, 2020, 10:36:42 PM »
Two other long-known facts should be mentioned:

* The Harper Fragment is occipital bone. Dr. Mantik was able to establish this a few years ago ("The Medical Evidence Decoded," pp. 9-10, 67-70, https://themantikview.com/pdf/The_Medical_Evidence_Decoded.pdf). This proves that the autopsy photos that show the back of the head intact have been altered. The FBI or Dr. Burkley "lost" the Harper Fragment, but, luckily, some photos were taken of it in Dallas. The only doctors who actually handled the Harper Fragment, including the chief of pathology at Methodist Hospital in Dallas, said it was occipital bone. Dr. Mantik interviewed one of those doctors, Dr. Noteboom, who confirmed that it came from the occiput:

Quote
Harper took it to his uncle, Jack C. Harper, M.D., who in turn showed it to A.B. Cairns, the chief pathologist at Methodist Hospital. A total of three Dallas pathologists examined the bone and they identified the site of origin as the occiput. (On 22 November 1992, on a Palm Springs radio talk show, I helped to interview one of these pathologists, Dr. Gerhard Noteboom, who reaffirmed that conclusion; he also recalled the lead deposit on the fragment.)  ("The Medical Evidence Decoded," p. 67).

The WC and the HSCA FPP would not acknowledge that the Harper Fragment is occipital bone because (1) missing occipital bone indicates a shot from the front, and (2) a sizable defect in the occiput proves that all but one of the autopsy photos of the back of the head have been altered.

* Jackie Kennedy saw a piece of JFK's skull [or brain] blown onto the trunk of the limousine, and that's why she started crawling on the trunk. Clint Hill, who got an up-close look at Kennedy's skull in the limo, said there was a large defect in the right-rear part of his skull. Agent Hill saw this wound again when he was asked to view the body to record the locations of the wounds. In her WC testimony, Jackie explained that she was trying to hold the back of JFK's head together, but that part of her testimony was omitted in the published version--it came to light years later.

Of course, literally dozens of witnesses who saw Kennedy's body in Dealey Plaza and/or at Parkland Hospital and/or at Bethesda Naval Hospital said there was a large wound in the back of the head, on the right side of the back of the head. Diana Bowron, the Parkland nurse who helped prepare the body for placement in the casket, described this wound, as did Tom Robinson, the mortician who prepared the body for burial after the autopsy. A number of these witnesses drew diagrams of the large rear head wound for the HSCA or the ARRB, and, thanks to the ARRB, we now have those diagrams:

http://www.jfklancer.com/Backes.html

Dr. Michael Chesser has confirmed Dr. Mantik's optical density measurements of the autopsy skull x-rays, which, among other things, prove that the right-rear defect in the skull has been patched on the autopsy skull x-rays in an attempt to conceal its existence (http://assassinationofjfk.net/a-review-of-the-jfk-cranial-x-rays-and-photographs/). When the x-rays were altered, no one knew that in future years technology would enable experts to detect the patching.

Dr. Mantik has examined the autopsy materials nine times at the National Archives. Here is one summary of his findings in which he discusses his optical density measurements and the hard scientific evidence that the x-rays have been altered: https://assassinationresearch.com/v2n2/pittsburgh.pdf
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 05:55:31 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1825
Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #130 on: July 17, 2020, 07:53:55 AM »
Two other long-known facts should be mentioned:

* The Harper Fragment is occipital bone. Dr. Mantik was able to establish this a few years ago ("The Medical Evidence Decoded," pp. 9-10, 67-70, https://themantikview.com/pdf/The_Medical_Evidence_Decoded.pdf). This proves that the autopsy photos that show the back of the head intact have been altered. The FBI or Dr. Burkley "lost" the Harper Fragment, but, luckily, some photos were taken of it in Dallas. The only doctors who actually handled the Harper Fragment, including the chief of pathology at Methodist Hospital in Dallas, said it was occipital bone. Dr. Mantik interviewed one of those doctors, Dr. Noteboom, who confirmed that it came from the occiput:

The WC and the HSCA FPP would not acknowledge that the Harper Fragment is occipital bone because (1) missing occipital bone indicates a shot from the front, and (2) a sizable defect in the occiput proves that all but one of the autopsy photos of the back of the head have been altered.

* Jackie Kennedy saw a piece of JFK's skull blown onto the trunk of the limousine, and that's why she started crawling on the trunk. Clint Hill, who got an up-close look at Kennedy's skull in the limo, said there was a large defect in the right-rear part of his skull. Agent Hill saw this wound again when he was asked to view the body to record the locations of the wounds. In her WC testimony, Jackie explained that she was trying to hold the back of JFK's head together, but that part of her testimony was omitted in the published version--it came to light years later.

Of course, literally dozens of witnesses who saw Kennedy's body in Dealey Plaza and/or at Parkland Hospital and/or at Bethesda Naval Hospital said there was a large wound in the back of the head, on the right side of the back of the head. Diana Bowron, the Parkland nurse who helped prepare the body for placement in the casket, described this wound, as did Tom Robinson, the mortician who prepared the body for burial after the autopsy. A number of these witnesses drew diagrams of the large rear head wound for the HSCA or the ARRB, and, thanks to the ARRB, we now have those diagrams:

http://www.jfklancer.com/Backes.html

Dr. Michael Chesser has confirmed Dr. Mantik's optical density measurements of the autopsy skull x-rays, which, among other things, prove that the right-rear defect in the skull has been patched on the autopsy skull x-rays in an attempt to conceal its existence (http://assassinationofjfk.net/a-review-of-the-jfk-cranial-x-rays-and-photographs/). When the x-rays were altered, no one knew that in future years technology would enable experts to detect the patching.

Dr. Mantik has examined the autopsy materials nine times at the National Archives. Here is one summary of his findings in which he discusses his optical density measurements and the hard scientific evidence that the x-rays have been altered: https://assassinationresearch.com/v2n2/pittsburgh.pdf


https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol7/html/HSCA_Vol7_0120a.htm

"The Harper fragment photographs show it as a roughly trapezoidal piece, 7 centimeters by 5.5 centimeters in size, coming mainly from the upper middle third of the right parietal bone. Near its short upper edge vascular foramina on the inside and a faint irregular line on the outside indicate saggital suture. Its posterior inferior pointed edge appears to fit the crack in the posterior section of the right parietal [bone] and its slightly wavy lower border can fit the upper edge of the loose lower section of right parietal [bone]. Its upper short border, on the left of the midline near vertex, may meet the left margin of the gap. Behind it there appears to be a large gap and in front a narrow one." -- Dr. J. Lawrence Angel

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #130 on: July 17, 2020, 07:53:55 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 929
Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #131 on: July 17, 2020, 03:21:51 PM »
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol7/html/HSCA_Vol7_0120a.htm

"The Harper fragment photographs show it as a roughly trapezoidal piece, 7 centimeters by 5.5 centimeters in size, coming mainly from the upper middle third of the right parietal bone. Near its short upper edge vascular foramina on the inside and a faint irregular line on the outside indicate saggital suture. Its posterior inferior pointed edge appears to fit the crack in the posterior section of the right parietal [bone] and its slightly wavy lower border can fit the upper edge of the loose lower section of right parietal [bone]. Its upper short border, on the left of the midline near vertex, may meet the left margin of the gap. Behind it there appears to be a large gap and in front a narrow one." -- Dr. J. Lawrence Angel

Apparently you didn't bother to read any of the links I provided. Dr. Mantik deals with Dr. Angel's analysis of the Harper Fragment in his long article "The Medical Evidence Decoded." Why don't you read Dr. Mantik's section on the Harper Fragment and then deal with the evidence he cites for its being occipital bone?

And I notice you just brushed aside the fact that the consensus of the doctors who actually handled and examined the Harper Fragment, including one who was the chief of pathology at Methodist Hospital in Dallas (Dr. Cairns), said the fragment was occipital bone. These doctors got to handle the fragment and examine it up-close.

I also notice you ignored all the eyewitness accounts, some of which include diagrams, that the large head wound was in the right-rear part of the head, which, of course, includes the occiput.

I further notice that you did not address the optical density measurements that prove that someone attempted to conceal the large right-rear wound in the autopsy skull x-rays by putting a graphical patch over it.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 01:29:32 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Tim Nickerson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1825
Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #132 on: July 18, 2020, 01:36:58 AM »
Apparently you didn't bother to read any of the links I provided. Dr. Mantik deals with Dr. Angel's bogus analysis of the Harper Fragment in his long article "The Medical Evidence Decoded." Why don't you read Dr. Mantik's section on the Harper Fragment and then deal with the evidence he cites for its being occipital bone?

And I notice you just brushed aside the fact that the consensus of the doctors who actually handled and examined the Harper Fragment, including one who was the chief of pathology at Methodist Hospital in Dallas (Dr. Cairns), said the fragment was occipital bone. These doctors got to handle the fragment and examine it up-close.

I also notice you ignored all the eyewitness accounts, some of which include diagrams, that the large head wound was in the right-rear part of the head, which, of course, includes the occiput.

I further notice that you did not address the optical density measurements that prove that someone attempted to conceal the large right-rear wound in the autopsy skull x-rays by putting a graphical patch over it.


http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/harper.htm

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/harper1.htm




JFK Assassination Forum

Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #132 on: July 18, 2020, 01:36:58 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 929
Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #133 on: July 18, 2020, 01:22:56 PM »
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/harper.htm

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/harper1.htm

If you could muster up the courage to read Dr. Mantik's analysis of the Harper fragment, you would discover that he answers the arguments presented in the two articles you cited, especially Dr. Riley's arguments. Here's the link to his article again, for your convenience:

https://themantikview.com/pdf/The_Medical_Evidence_Decoded.pdf

Dr. Mantik provides diagrams relating to the fragment on pages 9 and 10, and his discussion on the fragment begins on page 67.

One of Dr. Mantik's other articles on the Harper fragment is "The Harper Fragment Revisited" (2014). Here is a portion of what Dr. Mantik says in the article:


Quote
Most reconstructions (especially the parietal ones) with HF [Harper fragment] place the metallic smear near an exit site, even though the smear is on the outside.[9] That seems odd, because an entry site should normally lie on the outside. By citing "inner markings where blood vessels run around the base of the skull,"[10] Cairns must have meant either (1) vascular grooves (i.e., grooves in occipital bone; in gross disagreement with Riley), or (2) the sulcus for the superior sagittal sinus (which would, by definition, mean occipital bone). Riley did not address Cairns's provocative challenge to his conclusion. Likewise, Riley did not deal with Cairns' comment that HF suggested an entry wound. On the other hand, if HF had been parietal bone, then this smear would have lain near the skull vertex (Figure 3). Since an entry site near the vertex seems unlikely (to nearly everyone),[11] Riley would seem to regard the metallic smear as an exit site, even though the smear is on the outside, and even though there is no smear on the inside. The HSCA took the same curious approach (see below). . . .

The HSCA did address HF and did propose a skull reconstruction. In fact, since Michael Baden, M.D., and J. Lawrence Angel, Ph.D., disagreed with one another, the HSCA offered two contradictory reconstructions.[14] However, neither opinion supported an occipital origin for HF.[15] Angel, Curator of Physical Anthropology for the Smithsonian Institution, after viewing the photographs (the HSCA did not view the HF X-ray), described it as roughly trapezoidal, 7 x 5.5 cm, and coming mainly from the upper middle third of the right parietal bone. Angel saw a suture line inside of HF, which he identified as part of the sagittal suture (Figure 3).[16] That he saw a suture line is interesting; in particular, he thereby corroborated Cairns's recollection of a "suture." In his reconstruction, however, Angel left a gap between HF and the triangular fragment[17] (the latter is red in Figure 3); according to Angel, one edge of the triangular fragment comprised part of the coronal suture; and he placed that fragment anterior to that suture. . . .

Another analysis was offered by Joseph N. Riley, Ph.D., who is an expert in neuroanatomy. His brief paper[23] concluded that HF was right parietal, thereby agreeing with Angel (and with the HSCA). Riley emphasized two generic features of skull bones: (1) vascular grooves and (2) parietal foramina. The foramina are tiny holes (like dark dimples) in the bone that transmit blood vessels perpendicular to the skull surface. The grooves are shallow linear indentations that carry blood vessels parallel to the surface; Riley claimed that these two features are characteristic of parietal bone, but that "...occipital bone does not show a pattern of vascular grooving." Riley also asserted that foramina occurred "...only in parietal bone." (Based on a survey of many anatomy textbooks, and on my authentic human skull, these two arguments are both refuted below.) Riley noted an additional feature that, in his opinion, excluded an occipital site: the absence of deep grooves on HF for two specific, large blood vessels (the transverse sinus and the superior sagittal sinus). However, since the transverse sinus is from the lower occiput, that identification is quite irrelevant. That is because, in my reconstruction, HF is from the upper occiput (as I argue further below).

But the sulcus (or groove) for the superior sagittal sinus may actually be visible on HF (Figures 1 and 30B). Riley did not specifically address that possibility. Finally, Riley emphasized that parietal bone is characterized by a relatively smooth inner surface, mild curvature, and relatively uniform thickness; all of which he saw in HF. However, he did not address the likelihood that the Dallas pathologists [Cairns, Noteboom, and Harper] were keenly aware of all of these issues. I would also emphasize that they had a major advantage over subsequent observers (including Riley). After all, they could see, in three dimensions, the authentic curvature of the bone itself and did not need to speculate from photographs.

But what images did Riley employ in his analysis? He stated that he had obtained copies of the HF photographs from Mary Ferrell,[24] which permitted him to reach one fundamental conclusion. According to Riley, his photographs (supposedly taken by Cairns) matched those used by the HSCA, thus ruling out the possibility of mistaken identity. More importantly though, via many anatomy citations, we shall refute Riley's two key opinions. (http://www.patspeer.com/rare-files)

As I have noted, the fact that the Harper fragment is occipital bone corresponds with the numerous eyewitness accounts from people who saw a large wound in the right-rear part of Kennedy's head. Some of those witnesses drew diagrams of the wound for the HSCA and/or the ARRB, and, as I've pointed out, we now have those diagrams. One of those witnesses was the mortician, Tom Robinson, who prepared the body for burial after the autopsy. Needless to say, Robinson got a long, hands-on look at the large head wound.

Finally, you might also read Dr. Michael Chesser's discussion on the hard scientific evidence that the autopsy skull x-rays were altered partly in an attempt to conceal the right-rear exit wound. Dr. Chesser specializes in neurology and neurophysiology. Here is the PDF version of his copiously illustrated presentation:


https://kennedysandking.com/images/pdf/michael-chesser-houston-2017.pdf

Another medical doctor who has found evidence of tampering in the autopsy materials is Dr. Gary Aguilar, who has been allowed to examine the autopsy photos and x-rays at the National Archives. Here is one of Dr. Aguilar's articles on evidence of tampering in the autopsy materials:

https://web.archive.org/web/20171114031943/http://www.jfkhistory.com/aguilar.html




« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 03:08:43 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3723
Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #134 on: July 18, 2020, 03:39:05 PM »
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/harper.htm
From that article...
Quote
Billy Harper, who discovered the piece of bone when he was in Dealey Plaza on November 23rd taking pictures, took the fragment to his uncle, a Dr. Jack C. Harper, and Dr. Harper took the bone to Methodist Hospital where is was examined by Dr. A. B. Cairns, who was chief pathologist. Cairns opinion was that "the bone specimen looked like it came from the occipital region of the skull." Conspiracy interpretation of source of Harper fragment

Conspiracy books ever since have quoted Cairns, and used his assessment as evidence of a frontal shot exiting the rear of the head. Author Josiah Thompson, in Six Seconds in Dallas, after citing Cairns, notes that:

    It is difficult to understand how a shot from the rear could drive a piece of the occipital bone 25 feet to the left of the vehicles's path. It is not so difficult to understand how a shot from the right front exploding through the rear of the skull could produce precisely that effect. (p. 101)

A graphic from Robert Groden's book The Killing of a President (right) shows a typical conspiracist interpretation of the fragment.

But suppose Cairns was wrong? The Warren Commission failed to deal with this issue. However by 1977, when the House Select Committee on Assassinations began its work, the existence of the bone and its possible importance were well-known. The Committee's Forensic Pathology Panel studied the two photos of the fragment made at Methodist Hospital (Warren Commission Document 1395).
But suppose Cairns was correct? And the Warren Commission did not "fail to deal with the issue"----They just ignored it! Just like they ignored Seth Kantor's report that he saw Ruby at Parkland...just like they ignored Roger Craig's report that he saw [who he thought was Oswald] coming down the knoll and get into a vehicle...Just like they ignored Arnold Rowland who described a gunman lurking in a window on the west side of the sixth floor...Just like they ignored any other witness whose testimony conflicted with the Oswald did it all alone conclusion.

Offline Michael T. Griffith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 929
Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #135 on: July 18, 2020, 07:16:02 PM »
From that article...But suppose Cairns was correct? And the Warren Commission did not "fail to deal with the issue"----They just ignored it! Just like they ignored Seth Kantor's report that he saw Ruby at Parkland...just like they ignored Roger Craig's report that he saw [who he thought was Oswald] coming down the knoll and get into a vehicle...Just like they ignored Arnold Rowland who described a gunman lurking in a window on the west side of the sixth floor...Just like they ignored any other witness whose testimony conflicted with the Oswald did it all alone conclusion.

And it should be noted that we from WC FBI files that the FBI interviewed Dr. Cairns and that he had told the FBI that the Harper fragment was occipital bone.

The WC did not ignore Craig's or Kantor's statements. They essentially accused Craig of lying and said Kantor was mistaken. They took Jack Ruby's word over Kantor's!

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #135 on: July 18, 2020, 07:16:02 PM »