The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory

[Joe Elliott]

He's a lot more than 15 feet away from the President's head at Z312/313. And maybe 30 feet away from Mrs. Kennedy's car door.

Of the hundreds of witnesses there, I think you would be hard put to find a single witness who overestimated their distance from the President at the time he was killed.

Question:

Can anyone name one such witness?


The only one I can think of is Oswald, who said he was in the lunch room, and not by a window overlooking Elm Street.

Jean Hill used to hand out cards calling herself the “closest witness”. The other five occupants in the limousine, the four motorcycle officers just behind the limousine, the seven occupants of the ‘Queen Mary’ following right behind the limousine. Plus, her friend, Mary Moorman who was closer and standing right next to her. Jean Hill was no more the closest witness than she crossed the street immediately after the shots, without getting run over, in pursuit of Jack Ruby up the Grassy Knoll.

[John Iacoletti]

Well, we know that thousands of cars drove by that curb every day.

How exactly do “we know” this?

None of this is strong evidence that the tire rim strike hypothesis is wrong and the bullet strike hypothesis is correct.

So in true LN fashion, your speculation that you have no evidence for wins by default unless somebody can prove you wrong.

[John Iacoletti]

Of the hundreds of witnesses there, I think you would be hard put to find a single witness who overestimated their distance from the President at the time he was killed.

Question:

Can anyone name one such witness?


The only one I can think of is Oswald, who said he was in the lunch room, and not by a window overlooking Elm Street.

LOL. Like you know where he was.

[Joe Elliott]

How exactly do “we know” this?

So in true LN fashion, your speculation that you have no evidence for wins by default unless somebody can prove you wrong.

Because Main and Commerce Streets are very major streets in Dallas. For westbound traffic, Main Street becomes Commerce Street. Anyone heading west along Main Street, wanting to go somewhere on Commerce Street, or just off Commerce Street, would most naturally drive down this road and past that curb. I checked this out by asking Google Maps for directions from a place along Main Street to a place along Commerce. The directions sent me right down that street.

A mere car every 10 seconds would mean 360 cars passing by in an hour. I think these rates sound very plausible for a busy city street. Although, yes, I have not checked it out myself. Speculation? Yes. But not unreasonable speculation.

[Joe Elliott]

By the way, perusing Don Roberdeau’s map, I find:

On Elm Street:

Near the z-406 position, south side, a “furrow”, I guess from the bullet, right by the curb.
Near the z-406 position, south side, a “Bullet mark on sewer apron”, right by the curb, found by Officer Foster who guarded it (I could have told him it was just a bunch of crap).
Near the z-272 position, south side, yet another “Bullet strike” on a curb.
On the north side of Elm, near the Umbrella Man, yet another bullet strike on the sidewalk.
And, of course, on Main/Commerce Street, the “Bullet mark” on the curb near Mr. Tague.

I have not done an exhaustive search of Mr. Roberdeau’s map. There may be other curb bullet strikes. And maybe some that were reported but not on the map.

Wow, such a large number of curb bullet strikes. Were the shooters trying to kill the president or the curb?

[John Tonkovich]

I've seen this claim a few times. Based on Altgens' WC testimony.

    "This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet
     from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the
     west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car."

He's a lot more than 15 feet away from the President's head at Z312/313. And maybe 30 feet away from Mrs. Kennedy's car door.

Ike Altgens' livelihood depended on him knowing distances, especially in 1940, when he started taking pictures with fairly primitive - by today's standards - cameras. If he miscalculated, the picture would not be in focus.
So, I would tend to trust his judgement regarding distances more than most, if not all, of the people in Dealey Plaza.
Yet, he is not 15ft away.
Perhaps there's something you're missing. : )

[John Mytton]

Ike Altgens' livelihood depended on him knowing distances, especially in 1940, when he started taking pictures with fairly primitive - by today's standards - cameras. If he miscalculated, the picture would not be in focus.
So, I would tend to trust his judgement regarding distances more than most, if not all, of the people in Dealey Plaza.
Yet, he is not 15ft away.
Perhaps there's something you're missing. : )

Altgens says he was "about 15 feet" from Kennedy's Limo and the Limo was about 21 feet long so by using Jerry's graphic the measurement from Altgens to Kennedy's Limo is about 18-19 feet.

Mr. ALTGENS - This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car.


Credit Jerry Organ

JohnM

[Jerry Freeman]

What does getting all anal about how far Altgens was from the limo really have to do with Tague's injury?