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Author Topic: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory  (Read 19265 times)

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #80 on: July 11, 2020, 04:59:10 AM »
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     Q: Did you request that the photographer take any particular photographs to
          assist you in your work? Dr. Finck, let me show you a portion of Exhibit 28,
          page 6. I am going to draw your attention to a sentence in the first paragraph,
          the sentence beginning with the word "I." Do you see that sentence, which I
          will read for the record:
               "I helped the Navy photographer to take photographs of the
                occipital wound, external and internal aspects as well as the
                wound in the back."

     A: Now that I read this, I remember. But when you asked me the question before,
          it's hard for me to answer. But now I see that I helped the Navy photographer to
          take photographs of the occipital wound. So that's what happened.

     Q: Do you now recall any suggestion that you made to the photographer in terms of
          placement or angle of the shot or any such thing?

     A: Angle of?

     Q: Let me withdraw, let me withdraw the question. What I am interested in now is
          whether you currently have a recollection of this event or whether you are just
          confirming what has been written here?

     A: I'm confirming what is written.

     Q: But you have no independent recollection yourself?

     A: That's too far back.

Finck prefers hands-on to photographs:

    "It is very difficult to do with preciseness in a photograph. I examined the wounds .
     themselves. To look at a photograph is not like the examination of the wound itself."

But here it's the opposite. Finck doesn't remember the hands-on ("I don't remember the difficulty involved") and promotes an imaginary photograph that supposedly shows the EOP bared, although no other doctor said there was such a photograph, there's no measurement between the supposedly-bared EOP and entry wound, and all three signed an inventory saying the autopsy photographs were complete and authentic.

They attempted some shots inside the open chest cavity and the skull with a smaller handheld consumer camera but the pictures didn't turn out. These were probably the pictures that Finck was present for. He couldn't remember the shots taken with the larger professional camera of the head with the brain inside; they were taken before he arrived.

That's your interpretation.

The POTUS is assassinated by gunfire. You can bet they took detailed photographs of every wound.

The ones of the chest cavity and the through and through bullet hole at the EOP are not in the Archive.

The location of the wounds they depicted were altered after the autopsy.

Those alterations supported the official narrative.




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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #80 on: July 11, 2020, 04:59:10 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #81 on: July 11, 2020, 02:21:57 PM »
Sylvia Meagher’s treatment of the Tague wounding in her classic work Accessories After the Fact is worth reading:

Quote
Shortly after the shooting it was known that a bystander, James Tague, had been struck on the face by an apparent bullet fragment, and that a fresh bullet mark was found on the curb near the place where Tague had been standing. The Tague incident was reported to a deputy sheriff and his superior (7H 546-547), to Dallas Police Officer Haygood (WR 116) and the Dallas police at City Hall (7H 556). Although Tague went to City Hall and reported his experience, the police report on the assassination (CE 2003) does not include any affidavit from or any reference to Tague. . . .

It is indisputable that in a methodical, impartial investigation Tague would have been interviewed and the mark on the curb would have been examined at an early stage—certainly before conclusions were formulated about the number and the source of the shots. The evidence was known immediately to the Dallas police and sheriff's officers and almost certainly to the FBI as well, from the interview with Dillard if not from local police officers.

Yet the first overt indication of FBI interest in the curb came only on June 11, 1964, and the records do not specify what provoked action at that time. It may have been the communication from Martha Jo Stroud; that too has been withheld from the Exhibits and the date is not known. Whatever that date, it is perfectly clear from the documents that it was her communication that led the Commission on July 7, 1964, to request an FBI investigation of the curb, and it is entirely legitimate to wonder if the public would have learned anything whatever about this or the Tague matter in the absence of such an external stimulus.

The omission from the Exhibits of the FBI reports on interviews with Underwood and Dillard and the letter from Mrs. Stroud betrays a lack of candor on the Commission's part and perhaps an attempt to conceal its persistent inattention, and the FBI's, to vital evidence—evidence which irresistibly creates uncertainty about the actual number of shots.

If the Commission now concedes that the mark on the curb was made by a bullet, or a bullet fragment, it does so on the same undeviating assumption that the shots came exclusively from the Book Depository. To assume a priori that the mark was produced by a missile from that source, as both the Commission and the FBI did without even considering any other possibility, betrays the commitment to a hypothesis with which this evidence has little compatibility. Straining to force the evidence into harmony with preconceived conclusions, the Commission suggests two rather frail possibilities.

It suggests that a fragment from the bullet that hit the President's head might have produced the mark on the curb, ignoring the fact that two large fragments (equivalent respectively to one-fourth and one-eighth of the mass of the whole bullet) had dropped into the car without even penetrating the windshield or the relatively soft surfaces on which they were found. (WR 76-77, 557; 5H 66-74) If those fragments suffered such a dramatic loss of velocity upon impact and fragmentation, how could a different piece of the bullet retain sufficient momentum to travel "about 260 feet" farther, and to cut Tague's face and/or mark the curb? (Accessories After the Fact, pp. 5, 7, available online at https://archive.org/details/AccessoriesAfterTheFact)

Something hit Tague in the face and hit his face hard enough to cause a bleeding cut. Tague was 260 feet from the limousine when the headshot occurred, and bullet fragments from the headshot stayed in the limo (where they were later found), so the idea that a fragment from the headshot magically cleared the roll bar and the windshield and then dived down and made it to Tague with enough velocity to cause Tague’s wound is absurd. Plus, Tague was hit before the headshot because he heard another shot after he was hit in the face.

WC apologists dismiss or ignore Tague’s recollection of hearing another shot after he was hit, and they markedly disagree among themselves about how to get a bullet fragment to Tague and/or the curb. Why? Because they are bound by the lone-gunman theory’s assumption that only three shots were fired, even though we have abundant evidence that more than three shots were fired.

Extra Bullets and Missed Shots in Dealey Plaza
https://miketgriffith.com/files/extrabullets.htm



« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 02:26:02 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #82 on: July 11, 2020, 07:14:04 PM »
Below is a surprisingly good 2013 local NBC news segment on the Tague wounding. It includes an interview with Tague done a few days before the segment aired.

As for the WC's nonsensical theory that a bullet fragment from the headshot caused Tague's wounding, even Gerald Posner and Jim Moore have enough sense to see how ludicrous that idea is. Unfortunately, Moore's theory is even worse, while Posner's requires a staggering first-shot miss and a bullet that fragments after hitting a tree limb and then makes its way through the other tree limbs and goes streaking toward Tague's location.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 07:18:39 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #82 on: July 11, 2020, 07:14:04 PM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #83 on: July 11, 2020, 08:48:20 PM »

As for the WC's nonsensical theory that a bullet fragment from the headshot caused Tague's wounding, even Gerald Posner and Jim Moore have enough sense to see how ludicrous that idea is. Unfortunately, Moore's theory is even worse, while Posner's requires a staggering first-shot miss and a bullet that fragments after hitting a tree limb and then makes its way through the other tree limbs and goes streaking toward Tague's location.

For Mr. Griffith to find a hypothesis to be “nonsensical”, it does not require the relevant experts, ballistic experts, to find it nonsensical. Only himself. Based on his own armchair reasoning, not supported by real-world tests.

Gerald Posner and Jim Moore opinions on the Tague wounding are over 25 years old. Worse, neither were ballistic experts. In the past 25 years, LNers opinion has swung over to accepting the high probability of the Tague wound being caused by a fragment from the head wound. While laymen may find this hypothesis unlikely, ballistic experts, like Larry Sturdivan, Luke Haag and Michael Haag, who do real world experiments with rifles, find this hypothesis to be quite possible and the most likely explanation. Since the 1990’s, the opinion of these experts has persuaded most LNers that this hypothesis is true.

Forcing Mr. Griffith to reach back over 25 years to find prominent LNers, who were not ballistic experts, to make it appear that LNers opinion on this is sharply divided. It isn’t.

Offline Brian Roselle

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #84 on: July 11, 2020, 10:07:14 PM »
On Carcano strike simulations for that of a head/skull, exit fragment velocities ranged from 800 - 1000 ft/sec.

Ken Rahn mentioned  800 - 1000 fps that fragments emerged with from the test skulls used in the Warren Commission's re-creations run at the U.S. Army's Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland.

Lucien Haag did testing simulating shooting through a (head bone/brain simulant/head bone) setup representing a head shot resulting in larger fragments exiting at 1050 ft/sec.

800 - 1000 ft/sec  for a large fragment  would be enough exit velocity to overcome the drag effects from the headwind/air along with a poor fragment ballistic coefficient to reach the curb by Tague.


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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #84 on: July 11, 2020, 10:07:14 PM »


Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #85 on: July 12, 2020, 12:04:13 AM »
For Mr. Griffith to find a hypothesis to be “nonsensical”, it does not require the relevant experts, ballistic experts, to find it nonsensical. Only himself. Based on his own armchair reasoning, not supported by real-world tests.

Gerald Posner and Jim Moore opinions on the Tague wounding are over 25 years old. Worse, neither were ballistic experts. In the past 25 years, LNers opinion has swung over to accepting the high probability of the Tague wound being caused by a fragment from the head wound. While laymen may find this hypothesis unlikely, ballistic experts, like Larry Sturdivan, Luke Haag and Michael Haag, who do real world experiments with rifles, find this hypothesis to be quite possible and the most likely explanation. Since the 1990’s, the opinion of these experts has persuaded most LNers that this hypothesis is true.

Forcing Mr. Griffith to reach back over 25 years to find prominent LNers, who were not ballistic experts, to make it appear that LNers opinion on this is sharply divided. It isn’t.

Dear Joe,

A bullet fragment, or a bone fragment?

Regardless, how did it loop over the windshield (or penetrate it!) and manage to hit the curb with sufficient force to chip the concrete?

--  MWT  ;)

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #86 on: July 12, 2020, 02:12:18 AM »
Sorry, but the claim that bullet fragments from the head shot caused the dent in the chrome and the windshield damage, and that therefore another headshot fragment could have cleared the roll bar and the windshield to streak toward Tague, just doesn't work.

Dr. Tom Canning, the trajectory expert for the House Select Committee on Assassinations, told the committee that the windshield damage appeared to be too high to have been caused by a fragment from the headshot missile. So there's no way that a headshot fragment could have cleared the windshield to fly toward Tague.

If you accept the autopsy x-rays and photos and the Zapruder film as pristine and authentic, where in the world do you see an exit point in the skull that would even come close to allowing a fragment to fly at the necessary horizontal angle from the skull to fly toward Tague? Where? Where is it? And how can anyone posit such a theory given the position of JFK's head in the milliseconds during and just after the headshot? How?

And, for Pete's sake, if your headshot bullet came from the sixth-floor window, it entered the skull at a downward angle of about 20 degrees. So how would a fragment from that bullet exit the skull at an upward angle and with enough velocity to reach Tague with sufficient force to cut Tague or chip the curb? Again, as Dr. Canning noted, the windshield damage was too high to have been caused by a headshot fragment, and that damage was below the windshield chrome.

Three other points:

* Tague could not have been wounded by a fragment from the headshot because he had already ducked under the triple underpass before the headshot occurred. Dr. Thomas notes that photos taken in Dealey Plaza during the shooting confirm Tague's recollection that he took refuge under the triple underpass. Tague also recalled that he heard a shot after he got under the underpass. As Dr. Thomas notes, "Quite obviously, if he heard a shot after he ducked under the bridge, then he could not have been wounded by the last shot" (Hear No Evil, p. 378).

* As part of the research for his book Reasonable Doubt, Rockefeller Foundation scholar Henry Hurt contracted an engineering firm to study the curb mark, and the firm confirmed Harold Weisberg's earlier finding that the mark had been patched (Reasonable Doubt, pp. 136-138). (Weisberg had determined this by getting access to the high-quality color photographs that the FBI's Shaneyfelt took of the curb section in May 1964, and then by gaining access to the curb section itself.)

* The FBI destroyed the small spectrographic plate that contained a scraping from the curb mark in the face of repeated FOIA attempts by Harold Weisberg to have the plate tested by independent experts. The plate was subjected to spectrographic testing by FBI crime lab chemist John Gallagher in 1964, but the FBI withheld the lab report from the WC. Instead, Hoover sent a letter to the commission that--supposedly--summarized the lab findings.

Hoover said the smearing contained lead with a trace of antimony, which at the very least suggested the curb was struck by a bullet fragment. Weisberg sued to get a copy of the FBI lab report. When Weisberg finally received a copy of the lab report, he noticed it was suspiciously incomplete. So Weisberg then sued to be allowed to have the spectrographic plate analyzed by independent experts. After several Weisberg FOIA suits, the FBI announced that in "routine house-keeping" it had destroyed the plate.

Look, it's so simple: The obvious conclusion is that a fourth shot was responsible for Tague's wounding.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 02:14:32 AM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #87 on: July 12, 2020, 02:38:52 AM »
Look, it's so simple: The obvious conclusion is that a fourth shot was responsible for Tague's wounding.

95% of Dealey Plaza earwitnesses recalled hearing 3 or less shots.



JohnM

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #87 on: July 12, 2020, 02:38:52 AM »