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Author Topic: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory  (Read 19322 times)

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2020, 02:10:05 AM »
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The Warren Commission stated "The width of each concrete roadway through the Plaza is 40 feet."



If the lanes on Elm Street were evenly placed apart, each lane is about 13 feet wide (add to that about 5- or 6-inches width for each of the two road stripes). 13' x 3 = 39' (plus approx 1' for width of both stripes). 40' total.

The car is 78.6" wide. If centered in the center road lane, the car would be 38.7" from each road stripe. Altgens was at least 13 feet (the width of a road lane) from the center lane's east stripe. It is not clear to me that he is actually standing on the curb, but instead is a bit back.

If Altgens was right at the curb, the closest Altgens got to the rear door as it passed him was about 16.8' to 17'.

    "This would put me at approximately this area here, which would be about 15 feet
     from me at the time he was shot in the head--about 15 feet from the car on the
     west side of the car--on the side that Mrs. Kennedy was riding in the car."

Altgens was roughly 15 feet from the car during the moments following the head shot. It is incorrect to claim he was 15 feet from JFK when the head shot occurred.
His testimony is pretty simple.
We have already established his professional experience with estimating distance.
You have confirmed that 15 ft is pretty darn close. ( Thanks.)
He states that he was 15 ft from the president " at the time he was shot in the head".
Perhaps there's something I missed?
Or are you and Organ and Mytton missing something?

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2020, 02:10:05 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2020, 03:22:26 AM »
Well, it sounds like Deputy Sheriff Walthers was as big an expert on bullet strikes on concrete as any who looked at the curb. Although not, so far as I know, an expert on tire rim strikes on curbs.

But he didn’t mention any missing chips from the curb. Just as the photographs do not show any missing chip, or any large enough to be visible, Deputy Sheriff Walters did not observe this either. So the best witness saw no chip missing from the curb. Only a mark.

His opinion seems to have been based on the freshness of the mark. He knows from experience that they become noticeably grayer and grayer after two or three days.

Well, we know that thousands of cars drove by that curb every day. Most of them did not strike a curb, but most bullets, would not strike a curb either. And there were not thousands of bullets fired.

None of this is strong evidence that the tire rim strike hypothesis is wrong and the bullet strike hypothesis is correct.

Seeing the emperor's new clothes yet again I see.

Walthers mentioned that he had seen bullet strikes on curbs before. Also, the mark was deep enough, had enough substance missing, that Walthers assumed it could have been the source of the fragment that stung Tague and cut his face. And, the first photos did in fact show material missing from the mark--it was not just a smudge.

The lone-gunman theory cannot plausible, believably get a bullet or bullet fragment near the Tague curb scar or Tague himself. That's why the WC tried to ignore it for as long as they could.






Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2020, 03:35:58 AM »
Seeing the emperor's new clothes yet again I see.

Walthers mentioned that he had seen bullet strikes on curbs before. Also, the mark was deep enough, had enough substance missing, that Walthers assumed it could have been the source of the fragment that stung Tague and cut his face. And, the first photos did in fact show material missing from the mark--it was not just a smudge.

The lone-gunman theory cannot plausible, believably get a bullet or bullet fragment near the Tague curb scar or Tague himself. That's why the WC tried to ignore it for as long as they could.

If the mark was deep enough, how come we can't make it out?

If Tague was hit at all it was by a fragment from the head shot. The WC never tried to ignore the Tague strike. They didn't need to ignore it. It's easily explainable.

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2020, 03:35:58 AM »


Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #59 on: July 07, 2020, 07:37:19 AM »
He's off by 100% or more if his 15 ft distance is applied to the moment of the head shot.

Altgens' statement that he was 15 ft from the president "at the time he was shot in the head" is ballpark-correct only if "at the time" includes the Z350s.

Statements like "James Altgens, who was very close to the shooting and was about 15 feet away from JFK when Z313 hit" need context and shouldn't be taken literally, if anyone did.

How are we to take Altgens' testimony, if not "literally"?
Figuratively?
Metaphorically?
 


Offline John Mytton

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #60 on: July 07, 2020, 07:38:50 AM »
And, since there were two head shots, that kind of doubles the odds.

Two head shots? Besides Kennedy, who else was shot in the head?

JohnM

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #60 on: July 07, 2020, 07:38:50 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #61 on: July 07, 2020, 07:45:00 AM »
How are we to take Altgens' testimony, if not "literally"?
Figuratively?
Metaphorically?

Have you worked out how many inches that Altgens was from JFK's Limo and if so what is your mind boggling conclusion?

JohnM
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 08:28:25 AM by John Mytton »

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #62 on: July 07, 2020, 05:49:10 PM »
Two head shots? Besides Kennedy, who else was shot in the head?

JohnM

Read the testimony of Silbert and O'Neill.
" It was in the hairline."

Offline John Mytton

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2020, 07:26:08 PM »
Read the testimony of Silbert and O'Neill.
" It was in the hairline."

How does their testimony trump the official autopsy that includes supporting photographs and x-rays?

JohnM

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Re: The Wounding of James Tague Refutes the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2020, 07:26:08 PM »