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Author Topic: JFK vs Trump  (Read 18009 times)

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2020, 07:43:08 AM »
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What exactly did Donald Trump do that caused these things to happen?
.....

LOL ! Doubled the rate of monthly borrowing vs. final Obama admin. fiscal year average monthly borrowing, during a much touted economic expansion, the opposite of fiscal responsibility! Trump party shifted the debt burden to all of our grandchildren and intensely rewarded the top tenth of one percent of American families, approx. 75,000 families, and dramatically reduced their inheritance tax burden, and Trump's own.

Meanwhile, capital investment declined, in favor of stock buybacks resulting in rich reward to the political donor class:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/25/share-buybacks-soar-to-a-record-topping-800-billion-bigger-than-a-facebook-or-exxon-mobil.html
Share buybacks soar to record $806 billion — bigger than a Facebook or Exxon Mobil
PUBLISHED MON, MAR 25 2019 12:57 PM EDTUPDATED MON, MAR 25 20192:16 PM EDT
Kate Rooney




Final Obama admin. fiscal year ends above, national debt increase during final fiscal year of Obama presidency = $671 billion, or $56 billion per month

Quote
https://money.cnn.com/2016/05/05/investing/trump-king-of-debt-fire-janet-yellen/
Donald Trump: 'I'm the king of debt' -
May 7, 2016 - I love debt," Trump told CNN's Wolf Blitzer
on Wednesday, seemingly trying to explain the comfort level he has with debt after a long business ...

First 8 months of first "debt king", Trump admin fiscal year, debt increase averages $105 billion per month.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/pd_debttothepenny.htm

Most recent 21 months, just before covid-19 effect on debt increase, debt increase averages $111 billion per month.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 09:00:41 AM by Tom Scully »

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2020, 07:43:08 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2020, 02:41:56 PM »
img]https://miro.medium.com/max/700/1*4p88EAfZI8z1FibW0aaxJA.png[/img]

US Corporations have long been competitive with the EU and Asia

Not as much as they are now, thanks to the Trump tax cuts.

because of the advantageous "effective" tax rate

Wrong. The graduated nature of the previous corporate income tax only substantially helped smaller companies. Larger corporations were paying an effective tax rate that was far above the 18%-21% rate in Europe and Asia and far above the new rate of 21%.

You realize that the new corporate income tax is *not* graduated, right? It is a flat 21%, regardless of the corporation's size.

And I repeat the point that the Trump tax cuts ended the decades-long foreign income loophole, which allowed U.S. corporations to park billions of dollars overseas and to avoid taxes on income earned overseas. Liberals had been calling for ending this loophole for decades, but few liberals have given Trump credit for finally doing this, because if more people knew about this aspect of the Trump tax cuts, they would not so easily swallow the liberal talking point that the tax cuts mainly helped the rich.

By the way, the JFK tax cuts reduced the top marginal rate, the rate paid by rich folks, from 91% to 70%. So JFK gave the rich a 23% tax cut. Trump cut the top marginal rate by 6.6%.

(and through creative book-keeping by some corporations, the Gov't actually sends many large US corporations massive tax refunds every year).

Humm, I'd like to see data on that claim.

And are you counting the tens of billions of dollars that American corporations pay in state and local income taxes and property taxes?

I work for a rather large corporation, and in previous years I worked for two much larger corporations. I receive pay and benefits that very few small companies would be able to match. The last thing I want to see is my company's corporate tax rate jacked back up to 35%. I think a flat rate of 21% is more than enough.

Trump's cut for the corporations (and the billionaires) means the middle class have to eventually shoulder more tax burden.

Oh, just hogwash. This is Marxist hogwash. The Trump tax cut for corporations simply brought our corporate income tax rate down to the level that is common in Europe and Asia. You might want to remember that our corporations employ millions of Americans and pay billions of dollars each year to contribute to their employees' 401K funds, health insurance premiums, payroll taxes, and unemployment insurance. You realize that your employer pays half of your payroll tax for you, and that your employer pays into your state's unemployment insurance fund on your behalf (at no cost to you) each month, right?

Most people want a job that provides a decent salary and good benefits, including a matching 401K, health insurance, sick leave, and vacation time. Well, who do you suppose provides the majority of those kinds of jobs?  Mom and Pop stores?  No, corporations provide most of those kinds of jobs.

Let us look at the rate cuts for individual income taxes in the Trump tax cuts to dispel the liberal myth that they mainly helped the rich. Keep in mind that most Americans fall into the second, third, and fourth brackets:

1st bracket -- No change (since they already paid no income taxes, and Trump increased the Earned Income Tax Credit)
2nd bracket ($20K-$79K) -- 20% reduction (from 15% to 12%)
3rd bracket ($79K-$168K -- 12% reduction (from 25% to 22%)
4th bracket ($168K-$318K) -- 14.2% reduction (from 28% to 24%)
5th bracket ($318-$410K) -- 3.1% reduction (from 33% to 32%)
6th bracket ($410K-$610K) -- No reduction (stayed at 35%)
7th bracket ($610K-plus) -- 6.6% (from 39.6% to 37%)

As you can see, the second, third, and fourth brackets, where most Americans fall, got the largest rate cuts. My monthly net income rose by over $200 thanks to the tax cuts. So please, Democrats, keep your hands off them.

I notice you said nothing about the fact that the Trump taxes imposed a $10K cap on SALT deductions (state and local taxes), which has taken a sizable bite out of the wallets of the rich.  For someone like me, who pays about $12K in SALT each year, the cap has meant little. But for a person who makes, say, $325K per year and pays $35K or more in SALT, the cap has cost them several thousand dollars per year for the last two years, and will continue to do so.

Unless Biden reverses things, or the tax code is rewritten, but the empowered and elites don't want that.

So you want to jack up the tax rate on our corporations back up to 35%?! Really? Why would you want to do that? You might want to talk to the millions of employees of those corporations and ask them if they would like to see their employer's taxes jacked up by 40% (14 percentage points). Why would you want to do such a thing? Do you not want American corporations to grow, to hire more people, to keep paying for benefits?

I seriously, seriously doubt that Biden would be so foolish as to undo the Trump tax cuts. He might do what Bill Clinton did to the Reagan tax cuts and what Obama did to the Bush tax cuts, i.e., raise the rate for the top brackets somewhat but leave the tax cuts for the other brackets intact. And I hope to high heaven that, if Biden wins, he doesn't undo the great growth we've seen in our business sector by jacking up the corporate income tax rate back to 35% or to anything close to that.

As many economists have pointed out, taxing corporate income is a counter-productive form of double taxation that negatively affects everyone in each corporation. Corporations already pay half of all of their employees' payroll taxes, in addition to tens of billions of dollars in state income taxes and local property taxes. Even the owners and top executives in corporations already pay taxes on their salaries. So turning around and taxing a corporation again on its profits makes no sense, if you are interested in enabling the company to grow as much as possible.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 02:53:40 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2020, 05:20:25 PM »
Not as much as they are now, thanks to the Trump tax cuts.

Wrong. The graduated nature of the previous corporate income tax only substantially helped smaller companies. Larger corporations were paying an effective tax rate that was far above the 18%-21% rate in Europe and Asia and far above the new rate of 21%.

You realize that the new corporate income tax is *not* graduated, right? It is a flat 21%, regardless of the corporation's size.

And I repeat the point that the Trump tax cuts ended the decades-long foreign income loophole, which allowed U.S. corporations to park billions of dollars overseas and to avoid taxes on income earned overseas. Liberals had been calling for ending this loophole for decades, but few liberals have given Trump credit for finally doing this, because if more people knew about this aspect of the Trump tax cuts, they would not so easily swallow the liberal talking point that the tax cuts mainly helped the rich.

By the way, the JFK tax cuts reduced the top marginal rate, the rate paid by rich folks, from 91% to 70%. So JFK gave the rich a 23% tax cut. Trump cut the top marginal rate by 6.6%.

Humm, I'd like to see data on that claim.

And are you counting the tens of billions of dollars that American corporations pay in state and local income taxes and property taxes?

I work for a rather large corporation, and in previous years I worked for two much larger corporations. I receive pay and benefits that very few small companies would be able to match. The last thing I want to see is my company's corporate tax rate jacked back up to 35%. I think a flat rate of 21% is more than enough.

Oh, just hogwash. This is Marxist hogwash. The Trump tax cut for corporations simply brought our corporate income tax rate down to the level that is common in Europe and Asia. You might want to remember that our corporations employ millions of Americans and pay billions of dollars each year to contribute to their employees' 401K funds, health insurance premiums, payroll taxes, and unemployment insurance. You realize that your employer pays half of your payroll tax for you, and that your employer pays into your state's unemployment insurance fund on your behalf (at no cost to you) each month, right?

Most people want a job that provides a decent salary and good benefits, including a matching 401K, health insurance, sick leave, and vacation time. Well, who do you suppose provides the majority of those kinds of jobs?  Mom and Pop stores?  No, corporations provide most of those kinds of jobs.

Let us look at the rate cuts for individual income taxes in the Trump tax cuts to dispel the liberal myth that they mainly helped the rich. Keep in mind that most Americans fall into the second, third, and fourth brackets:

1st bracket -- No change (since they already paid no income taxes, and Trump increased the Earned Income Tax Credit)
2nd bracket ($20K-$79K) -- 20% reduction (from 15% to 12%)
3rd bracket ($79K-$168K -- 12% reduction (from 25% to 22%)
4th bracket ($168K-$318K) -- 14.2% reduction (from 28% to 24%)
5th bracket ($318-$410K) -- 3.1% reduction (from 33% to 32%)
6th bracket ($410K-$610K) -- No reduction (stayed at 35%)
7th bracket ($610K-plus) -- 6.6% (from 39.6% to 37%)

As you can see, the second, third, and fourth brackets, where most Americans fall, got the largest rate cuts. My monthly net income rose by over $200 thanks to the tax cuts. So please, Democrats, keep your hands off them.

I notice you said nothing about the fact that the Trump taxes imposed a $10K cap on SALT deductions (state and local taxes), which has taken a sizable bite out of the wallets of the rich.  For someone like me, who pays about $12K in SALT each year, the cap has meant little. But for a person who makes, say, $325K per year and pays $35K or more in SALT, the cap has cost them several thousand dollars per year for the last two years, and will continue to do so.

So you want to jack up the tax rate on our corporations back up to 35%?! Really? Why would you want to do that? You might want to talk to the millions of employees of those corporations and ask them if they would like to see their employer's taxes jacked up by 40% (14 percentage points). Why would you want to do such a thing? Do you not want American corporations to grow, to hire more people, to keep paying for benefits?

I seriously, seriously doubt that Biden would be so foolish as to undo the Trump tax cuts. He might do what Bill Clinton did to the Reagan tax cuts and what Obama did to the Bush tax cuts, i.e., raise the rate for the top brackets somewhat but leave the tax cuts for the other brackets intact. And I hope to high heaven that, if Biden wins, he doesn't undo the great growth we've seen in our business sector by jacking up the corporate income tax rate back to 35% or to anything close to that.

As many economists have pointed out, taxing corporate income is a counter-productive form of double taxation that negatively affects everyone in each corporation. Corporations already pay half of all of their employees' payroll taxes, in addition to tens of billions of dollars in state income taxes and local property taxes. Even the owners and top executives in corporations already pay taxes on their salaries. So turning around and taxing a corporation again on its profits makes no sense, if you are interested in enabling the company to grow as much as possible.

That word, "Marxist",..I don't think it means what you think it means.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2020, 05:20:25 PM »


Offline Gary Craig

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2020, 02:27:35 AM »
If I understand the tax cuts: The ones for the rich are permanent unless changed by an act of Congress.
The middle class tax breaks expire in 5 years I think and taxes go up above what they were before Trump.
A shell game to take advantage of the short sighted.

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2020, 06:40:16 AM »

John F. Kennedy was a good president. Donald Trump is a bad president. But unfortunately, Kennedy setup the future that made the election of Trump possible. Well, not Kennedy himself but others did, by insisting on primaries.

Before 1960, presidential candidates were not chosen by the people, but largely by party insiders. Senior members of Congress. Insiders who chose candidates like Dwight Eisenhower or Adlai Stevenson. When Franklin Roosevelt health was going down, party insiders made certain that Harry Truman would be the Vice President and ready to take over as President, just in case.

If presidential candidates were chosen the way they used by be chosen, Lyndon Johnson would have been the democratic candidate in 1960. But the people wanted Kennedy and he won enough primaries to overcome the insider’s choice. In that case, the results were good. But the people’s choice is not always going to be good.

Under the old system, where primaries were few, generally, both party’s nominee was acceptable.

Now the people decide who they want. We don’t have indirect democracy any more. We have direct democracy. Direct democracy got us some good Presidents, like Kennedy. But also some bad ones, like Trump.

Indirect democracy, electing our representatives and senators, who in turn selected the presidential candidates, was a good system. It generally did not result in incompetent’s winning a party’s nomination.

Even if Trump loses, we still have a problem. We don’t know what bad choice may catch the fancy of the people in 4 to 8 years. Having Trump lose the election will be good, but it won’t fix the fundamental problem. We still have bad presidents in our future.

I think missing out on the Kennedys is probably worthwhile, if it would help us avoid getting the Trumps.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2020, 06:40:16 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2020, 04:11:06 PM »
What exactly did Donald Trump do that caused these things to happen?

He cut taxes on our companies. He cut huge amounts of burdensome business regulations. He cut taxes on nearly all working Americans, which of course left them with more money to spend in the economy.

Quote
This is just false.

No it is not. The Trump tax cuts' largest rate cuts for individual income tax rates went to the middle class:

1st bracket -- No change (since they already paid no income taxes, and Trump increased the Earned Income Tax Credit)
2nd bracket ($20K-$79K) -- 20% reduction (from 15% to 12%)
3rd bracket ($79K-$168K -- 12% reduction (from 25% to 22%)
4th bracket ($168K-$318K) -- 14.2% reduction (from 28% to 24%)
5th bracket ($318-$410K) -- 3.1% reduction (from 33% to 32%)
6th bracket ($410K-$610K) -- No reduction (stayed at 35%)
7th bracket ($610K-plus) -- 6.6% (from 39.6% to 37%)

The tax brackets are readily available online. Anyone can confirm that Trump gave the largest rate cuts to the second, third, and fourth brackets, where the vast majority of middle-income earners fall.



Offline Rick Plant

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2020, 04:23:43 PM »
What has Donald Trump achieved? Before the COVID-19 pandemic hit:

* One of the best economies in the last 50 years.

* The lowest black and Hispanic unemployment rates ever.

* The biggest jump in manufacturing jobs since the 1990s.

* A huge tax cut that gave the largest rate cuts to the middle class.

* Appointment of outstanding originalist judges to the federal judiciary.

* Selling weapons to Ukraine and Georgia.

* Negotiation of a new North American trade deal that represents a huge improvement over NAFTA.

* Ending the Obamacare penalty tax, so people aren't penalized for not buying a product they don't want.

* Improving security at our southern border to make it harder for human traffickers and drug smugglers to cross the border, and it make it harder for people to enter our country illegally.

* Providing military personnel with a sizable pay increase.

Trump was my last choice among the GOP candidates. I preferred Kasich, Carson, or Rubio, in that order.  I am often disappointed with how Trump conducts himself. Sometimes his behavior is petty and needlessly combative. But Trump has done many good things for America.

Nice bogus right wing propaganda.

The greatest economy on record was created by Barack Obama and Joe Biden. Donald Trump is a fraud and took credit for it just like he paid someone to take his SATs for him.

Manufacturing has been in a recession since last September and the economic recession started BEFORE the Trump Virus due to his bogus tariffs and tax gimmicks to the 1% that tripled the national debt. 

The middle class didn't hardly get a tax cut and are worse off than 4 years ago with finances.

Black and Hispanic unemployment is at an all time high.

We are losing and behind every major nation with Donald Trump.           

Get some new talking points.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2020, 06:18:17 PM »
He cut taxes on our companies. He cut huge amounts of burdensome business regulations. He cut taxes on nearly all working Americans, which of course left them with more money to spend in the economy.

The president doesn't have the power to cut taxes.

And what do these tax cuts have to do with "black and Hispanic unemployment rates" in particular?  It sounds like Trump is doing what he always does.  Taking all the credit for things that happen that are good, and none of the blame for the bad stuff.  And you're buying into the rhetoric.

And as Scully pointed out, what did these tax cuts do the the national debt?  There's no free lunch.

Quote
No it is not. The Trump tax cuts' largest rate cuts for individual income tax rates went to the middle class:

This is numerical sleight of hand.  By the way, you didn't mention that your examples are current year rates for married, filing jointly taxpayers, who get a subsidy.

Another way to look at it:

1st bracket -- No change
2nd bracket ($20K-$79K) -- 3% change (from 15% to 12%)
3rd bracket ($79K-$168K -- 3% change (from 25% to 22%)
4th bracket ($168K-$318K) -- 4% change (from 28% to 24%)
5th bracket ($318-$410K) -- 1% change (from 33% to 32%)
6th bracket ($410K-$610K) -- No change (stayed at 35%)
7th bracket ($610K-plus) -- 2.6% change (from 39.6% to 37%)

Only slightly better (0.4%) for $20K-$168K than for $610K, and 168K-318K isn't exactly what is usually meant by "middle class".

Another way to look at it:

A couple making $1 billion gets a $26 million tax cut.  A couple making $20K gets a $600 tax cut.  Yes, it's just math, but don't pretend like this is some windfall to the poor or the middle class.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 06:19:35 PM by John Iacoletti »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2020, 06:18:17 PM »