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Author Topic: A Simple Question in Physics  (Read 6427 times)

Offline Joe Elliott

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A Simple Question in Physics
« on: July 09, 2020, 05:25:38 AM »
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A Simple Question in Physics

Question: How long does a “Target” accelerate when a bullet passes through it:

Answer 1: Only accelerates for 1 to 2 milliseconds.

Answer 2: Will continue to accelerate a good deal longer than 1 to 2 milliseconds.


The question and answers had to be made shorter, should really be:

Question: How long does a “Target” accelerate when a bullet passes through it, as a result of being struck by a bullet:

Answer 1: Only accelerates for 1 to 2 milliseconds, after which a simple target will travel at a constant velocity.

Answer 2: Will continue to accelerate a good deal longer than 1 to 2 milliseconds, long after the bullet has left the target.


A little background information.

The Conservation of Momentum is a basic law of Physics. When a bullet strikes an object, momentum is transferred from the bullet to the object. The object will be pushed in the same direction as the bullet. But the object will only gain velocity, will only gain momentum, while the bullet is within the object. Once the bullet has passed through the object, no more momentum is added. The speed of a simple target will be constant.

Velocity is the speed of an object (and its direction). Acceleration is the rate the Velocity changes (and its direction). So, if the velocity of an object is 5 feet per second, and the acceleration, in the same direction is 2 feet per second per second, at Time 0 seconds, the velocity is 5 fps, at Time 1 seconds, the velocity is 7 fps, at Time 2 seconds, the velocity is 9 fps, etc.

A bullet will pass through the target object within 1 to 2 milliseconds. The target will receive a “jolt” but won’t continue to accelerate once the bullet leaves the target.

Assume other forces, like the acceleration of the limousine, are insignificant. Because the limousine’s acceleration was very small and insignificant.

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A Simple Question in Physics
« on: July 09, 2020, 05:25:38 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2020, 05:40:50 AM »

Real life isn't Hollywood, these soldiers are all shot in the head with fmj bullets and no one is violently thrown forward, they just fall down and move back towards the shooters.



JohnM

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2020, 06:13:20 AM »

Real life isn't Hollywood, these soldiers are all shot in the head with fmj bullets and no one is violently thrown forward, they just fall down and move back towards the shooters.



JohnM

Yes. My point is that the President’s head accelerates backwards over a period of a quarter second, which is not in accordance to simple physics, as CTers claim. If this was simple physics, all the momentum would be transferred in 1 to 2 milliseconds, after which the head would move backwards at a constant speed, or indeed, would slow down, when the same amount of momentum had to start pushing back both the head and the torso.

This constant acceleration shows that something else has to be involved. And its not the acceleration of the limousine. It can only be the muscles of the President that is causing this backwards acceleration.

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2020, 06:13:20 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2020, 12:12:02 PM »
Yes. My point is that the President’s head accelerates backwards over a period of a quarter second, which is not in accordance to simple physics, as CTers claim. If this was simple physics, all the momentum would be transferred in 1 to 2 milliseconds, after which the head would move backwards at a constant speed, or indeed, would slow down, when the same amount of momentum had to start pushing back both the head and the torso.

This constant acceleration shows that something else has to be involved. And its not the acceleration of the limousine. It can only be the muscles of the President that is causing this backwards acceleration.

Yep, you're right but I meant to put my above response in another thread.

JohnM

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2020, 04:38:34 PM »
You can find execution films that show the opposite of what the Mytton's films show, that show bodies moving away from the rifle/in the same direction as the bullet(s):




More could be cited.

You can cherry-pick videos all day, but your defense of the nonsensical jet-effect theory is not worth the time of day until you address the scientific objections to the theory raised by physicists, ballistics experts, forensic pathologists, and other scholars.

I might add that virtually all of the strapping-tape-wrapped melons in Alvarez's experiments were knocked away from the shooter, in the same direction the bullet was traveling. Dr. Art Snyder, then a physicist at Stanford University, conducted his own experiments and found that Newton's laws still worked.




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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2020, 04:38:34 PM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2020, 11:55:23 PM »
You can find execution films that show the opposite of what the Mytton's films show, that show bodies moving away from the rifle/in the same direction as the bullet(s):

WOW!, How do you figure that 1 man being shot with the force of 6 rifles is any way similar to what happened in Dealey Plaza? But anyway let's have a look at which way the man reacts to being shot with the force of 6 rifles and what do you know, the man shows no initial rearward movement and his upper torso falls back towards the shooters. Try again.





JohnM
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 11:58:55 PM by John Mytton »

Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2020, 12:06:08 AM »
Are you sure they are being shot in the head? Firing squads aim for the heart in many cases. Looking at old photos it is about 50/50. They often put a mark there as a target. It is said the heart shot kills quicker than a head shot. In John Mytton's first film(The sepia film)the rifleman closest to the camera is not pointing the rifle at the head but at the chest.
    How the head moves as a standing person collapses is largely due to how the knees and the waist go limp. When the knees give out the torso falls back which causes the head to rock forward. When and if they bend at the waist the head rocks forward. The timing of the knees vs the waist varies and and has a huge effect on the head movement. Because the way the body crumples when shot I don't think footage of standing victims falling is of much value, but I don't think this firing squad is aiming at the head anyway.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 12:10:29 AM by Chris Bristow »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2020, 12:16:31 AM »
Are you sure they are being shot in the head? Firing squads aim for the heart in many cases. Looking at old photos it is about 50/50. They often put a mark there as a target. It is said the heart shot kills quicker than a head shot. In the film the rifleman closest to the camera is not pointing the rifle at the head but at the chest.
    How the head moves as a standing person collapses is largely due to how the knees and the waist go limp. When the knees give out the torso falls back which causes the head to rock forward. When and if they bend at the waist the head rocks forward. The timing of the knees vs the waist varies and and has a huge effect on the head movement. Because the way the body crumples when shot I don't think footage of standing victims falling is of much value, but I don't think this firing squad is aiming at the head anyway.

By plotting the resulting matter being expelled from the area from the top of the man's torso, I agree with you and that why I never referenced to the man being shot in the head but for the sake of argument we are still dealing with the same force or potentially six time as much force being applied to the man's upper body and in no way do we see the man being violently flung backwards.

Whereas in the first GIF above I uploaded, the first man is definitely struck in the head.



JohnM
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 12:25:34 AM by John Mytton »

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2020, 12:16:31 AM »