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Author Topic: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )  (Read 283499 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1200 on: February 04, 2021, 10:57:48 AM »
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I have seen it convincingly argued elsewhere that Fritz copied Bookhout's notes

I believe that Fritz was at least senile. and possibly  in the early stages of dementia.   As a consequence he couldn't take accurate notes, so it's possible that he asked Bookhout if he could borrow the notes that he had taken.   This would explain why he said he didn't take notes at the time, and jotted them down later.    However, As I recall Hosty said in his book, that the typed up reports had to be filed within 24 hours of the interrogation and  any notes taken were to be destroyed.  If that is true, and Bookhout followed orders,  then Fritz must have copied Bookhout's notes on Saturday 11/23 / 63.

Captain Fritz didn't copy them, he listened to them. For example, on page 1 of his notes we find 'writing' spelled as 'wrighting'. No way would an FBI agent get that spelling wrong.

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1200 on: February 04, 2021, 10:57:48 AM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1201 on: February 05, 2021, 12:44:20 AM »
Baker stated he did not draw his gun
out until he reached the 1st staircase

That’s likely the front staircase

Pauline Sanders noticed Baker as he ran right up the right side of those entrance steps, because Pauline was standing just to right side of the entrance door.

It’s implausible imo that Pauline Sanders would have failed to mention a detail such as a gun drawn by the the cop she observed.

Therefore, I’m going with a meeting of Baker and Oswald happening in the front foyer = “vestibule “ at the front staircase as Oswald was seen going TO the storage room by Baker.

Oswald still had on his brown shirt at this point, although it’s uncertain if the sleeves were still rolled up or rolled down. Baker thought it was a jacket.

Truly then entered, saw Baker with gun drawn at Oswald and then vouched for Oswald and advised Baker to follow Truly to the rear elevators and staircase if Baker wanted to get to the roof.

Oswald went back to the storage room. took OFF his brown shirt and then Oswald followed the path of Baker/Truly going thru the now opened countertop  but some 15 to 20 seconds later , such that Baker/Truly have ascended to the 2nd floor landing and out of LOS of Oswald.

Purpose of Oswalds trek across 1st floor to the rear staircase was to get another Dr. Peoper from the 2st floor machine.

However, the Dr,Peoper machine was either sold out or the power has gone out, and so Oswald goes up the rear staircase to go get a coke from the 2nd floor lunchroom.

He gets the coke, but dies not open it, and opts to return to the front foyer and storage room by cutting thru Mrs Reid’s office.

Thus the Mrs Reid meeting Oswald in T-shirt story thingy can be ipreserved “ “INTACT and SECURE” ! ( a phrase from “Fallout” episode of The Prisoner) :)

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1202 on: February 05, 2021, 12:58:11 AM »

Therefore, I’m going with a meeting of Baker and Oswald happening in the front foyer = “vestibule “ at the front staircase as Oswald was seen going TO the storage room by Baker.


The "vestibule" is the small space next to the second floor lunchroom. This is from Truly's affidavit:

"2. The door opening on the vestibule of the lunchroom on the second floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building is usually shut because of a closing mechanism on the door"


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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1202 on: February 05, 2021, 12:58:11 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1203 on: February 05, 2021, 01:09:07 AM »
Therefore, I’m going with a meeting of Baker and Oswald happening in the front foyer = “vestibule “ at the front staircase as Oswald was seen going TO the storage room by Baker.

Oswald still had on his brown shirt at this point, although it’s uncertain if the sleeves were still rolled up or rolled down. Baker thought it was a jacket.

Truly then entered, saw Baker with gun drawn at Oswald

Why would Officer Baker draw his gun on someone in the front lobby?

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1204 on: February 05, 2021, 01:13:17 AM »
The "vestibule" is the small space next to the second floor lunchroom. This is from Truly's affidavit:

"2. The door opening on the vestibule of the lunchroom on the second floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building is usually shut because of a closing mechanism on the door"

Yes. Mr Oswald used the word 'vestibule' in interrogation. Vestibule means front lobby; more rarely, it can mean front porch.

Mr Belin later made sure to describe that second floor space (absurdly) as a 'vestibule' during Mr Truly's testimony, and Mr Truly played along.

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1204 on: February 05, 2021, 01:13:17 AM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1205 on: February 05, 2021, 01:52:38 AM »
Baker already had drawn his gun in preparation to begin his ascent up the front staircase, erroneously presuming that staircase continued to the roof.

It’s at that point that Oswald was seen as Baker reaches the stairs and it was a reflex action with gun still in hand as Baker saw Oswald going “away “ from that front staircase TO the storage room.

 

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1206 on: February 05, 2021, 02:11:15 AM »
 Carolyn Arnold’s very 1st FBI statement, the only one she SIGNED her name on, does NOT refer to
2nd floor lunchroom. Instead   Arnold describes glimpsing Oswald on the 1st floor in the hallway between  front entrance door and the 2nd set of doors leading to the warehouse at approximately time of 12:25. That
is a description of the front foyer, and NOT the vestibule of the 2nd floor lunchroom.
She later denies this FBI statement and starts the 2nd floor lunchroom version in 2nd FBI statement NOT signing her name. And embellishes on that story many years later adding more details such as Oswald seated etc.

Imo, Carolyn Arnold was coerced to change her original 1st floor sighting to the 2nd floor.


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1207 on: February 05, 2021, 02:14:08 AM »
Baker already had drawn his gun in preparation to begin his ascent up the front staircase, erroneously presuming that staircase continued to the roof.

It’s at that point that Oswald was seen as Baker reaches the stairs and it was a reflex action with gun still in hand as Baker saw Oswald going “away “ from that front staircase TO the storage room.

Well maybe, and it has been suggested that the Darnell film shows Officer Baker's pistol already drawn as he runs towards the building entrance.

But! Given how soon after the assassination this was, Officer Baker can hardly have suspected Mr Oswald of involvement in shots fired from the top of the building. That would be even MORE absurd (which is saying something!) than Officer Baker singling out as suspicious a man behind a closed door on the second floor...........

There is a simple solution to this. IF Officer Baker already had his gun drawn as he entered the building, then Agent Bookhout's solo interrogation report may be telling us (with altered location) exactly what Mr Oswald said--------------------

...a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there...

'Do you work here?' in this context is not a suspicious question (how could it be?) but an urgent inquiry meaning 'Do you know where the nearest stairs are?'

In which case Mr Oswald was TWICE asked for directions in the immediate aftermath of the shooting: first from Officer Baker, then from Mr Pierce Allman.

IF this was in the lobby, then it must have been right by the glass doors----------otherwise Mr Lovelady, who was still on the steps, would not have seen it (and mentioned it to Mr Jarman).

Furthermore! If Officer Baker were anywhere near the front-of-house storage room, he wouldn't have needed anyone's help in finding the stairs............



That door you see is the door to the storage room!

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« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 02:36:41 AM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1207 on: February 05, 2021, 02:14:08 AM »