Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2

[Michael T. Griffith]

And Trump has not conceded because there is substantial evidence of widespread voter fraud in WI, MI, GA, NV, and PA. Some of this evidence was captured **on video,** so to blindly claim that there's "zero evidence of election fraud" is absurd and dishonest.

What's it like to live in an alternate "reality" where you can make up your own "facts"?

So you are saying the videos are fake? Is that what you're saying? How about the hundreds of thousands that have been discovered to have only votes for Biden on them and no votes for other candidates or proposed amendments? How about the whistleblowers who have come forward about fraud involving mail-in ballots? How about the fact that in some counties, Democratic turnout was over 80%, sometimes over 90%, a phenomenon that is not only markedly unprecedented but that election analysts say is essentially impossible.

Not only has Trump lost every court case that has already been decided (that should tell you something, but it probably won't), but so far the lawyers have not been able to produce any evidence of fraud in any of those cases.

Wow, talk about "alternate reality"! What do you mean Trump's lawyers have been unable "to produce any evidence of fraud"? That is pure fiction. I guess the left-wing news sources you trust are telling you there is no such evidence, and you are not bothering to examine the other side. You might start with this summary of the evidence by Trump election attorney Sidney Powell--then come back and tell me with a straight face that Trump's lawyers have cited no evidence of election fraud:

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6208201476001#sp=show-clips

And I ask you again, are you saying that the videos that show election fraud have been faked?

I'm guessing you have not heard this, but a PA state judge just ruled two days ago that the extension of the voting deadline was illegal and that all votes received after the legal deadline will *not* count.

That's a legal matter and has nothing to do with fraud. The opinion of one judge is of little value in the bigger scheme of things. The legal problem is not with the validity of the ballots. It's about when they were received. Given that the people possibly may have been misinformed about a deadline can not automatically lead to the invalidation of their votes, so don't get your hopes up that those votes will be thrown out.

Uh, violating election law is a form of election fraud, so this has everything to do with election fraud. Do you care about the law? Do you believe elected officials should follow election law until it is changed via the democratic process? By Pennsylvania law, no ballots can be counted if they are received after election day, except for absentee ballots of military and diplomatic personnel stationed in other states and overseas. But the state's Democratic governor and secretary of state decided that the law was "unfair" and issued illegal orders to extend the deadline. Thankfully, the judge followed the law.

And today the state of Georgia has begun its manual recount, although liberal news outlets are virtually ignoring this big story. If the recount puts the state clearly in Trump's column, that will be an important step in undoing Biden's theft of the election.

It's only a "big" story to Trump supporters because they hope and pray that the automatically triggered manual recount will end in a positive result for Trump. This also has nothing to do with fraud and/or Biden "stealing" the election. In the meantime Biden has been declared the winner in Georgia, bringing his total in the electoral college to 306.

Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. Recounts are not automatic under Georgia law. If the margin of victory is below 1% or 0.5%, depending on the level of the election, a candidate can request a recount, but a recount is not automatic but is at the discretion of the Georgia secretary of state.

Whatever "news" sources told you that recounts are automatic in Georgia were wrong. You might want to consider expanding your news sources to include sources like The Federalist, The Daily Wire, The Blaze, Just the News, and Newsmax.

Democrats and their media pawns are trying very hard to make it seem like the election is over and that Biden won. Funny how they did the opposite in 2000.

Did your biased and very selective memory forget what the Republicans were saying 4 years ago?

Ohhhhhhh! Really???!!!!! And how about what Democrats said about Stacey Abrams' race in Georgia *two years ago*? She demanded a recount, lost the recount, and never did concede, and you guys thought that was just fine. Or how about the 2000 election, when Al Gore refused to concede for **35 days**, when he lost the statewide recount, demanded recounts only in heavily Democratic counties, and then tried to get away with a phony statewide recount that was only going to recount the undervotes (since Gore believed the undervotes would tilt heavily for him)? Huh? You guys screamed bloody murder that Gore was entirely justified in refusing to concede and in demanding selective recounts.

Or how about Hillary's emphatic comment just a few months ago that Biden should not concede under any circumstances if he thought there was any indication of voter fraud? Hey? You people are incredible hypocrites.

Btw, as far as covid is concerned, let's compare the Scandinavian countries as per today;

Norway:     26503 infections and 291 deaths
Finland:     18542 infections and 365 deaths
Denmark:  58963 infections and 755 deaths

Sweden: 171365 infections and 6122 deaths

Yeah, Sweden is doing really well.... pffffffffff

You have a problem with honesty, don't you? We both know that you have misleadingly cherry-picked your comparison countries. I think you and I have had this discussion before. As I have pointed out several times, Sweden's COVID-19 numbers are better than those of several other European nations and worse than those of other nations. Sweden falls somewhere toward the middle when it comes to COVID-19 numbers, yet Sweden has done this without suffering nearly as much economic damage as those other nations because Sweden had the good sense not to impose a lockdown but to keep businesses and most schools open.

And I notice you ignored the point that Sweden's daily COVID-19 deaths have dropped dramatically since August, and that if you adjust for population size, Sweden has had over 80% fewer daily deaths than America has had.

Or, let's compare Sweden's nearly flatline number of daily deaths to France's. Over the last 30 days, France has averaged nearly 500 daily deaths, compared to Sweden's average of 4 daily deaths. If we adjust Sweden's numbers for France's population size (66 million), 4 daily deaths equals 26 daily deaths. This means that Sweden's number of daily deaths, adjusted for population size, is over 6 times lower than France's number of daily deaths.

Facts are stubborn things.

[Colin Crow]

Let's just be realistic about the US problem. The position you find yourself in is largely because the testing employed early was faulty. You had community transmission in Washington State early and then New York. The infectious nature of the virus was unknown as it was novel. Michael likes to refer to Taiwan, they had considerable experience with SARS a few years ago and a culture that has little issue with masking. Their society generally are "con formative" to government edicts.

You can argue about survival rates increasing all you want. This is largely because methods of treatment for those hospitalised have improved significantly since the initial outbreak. However your hospital systems are becoming overwhelmed and so unless the numbers can be curtailed the fatality rates will increase due to lack of facilities.

As for Trump and stolen elections, please explain why the thieves decided not to steal the senate and house seats. Anything? 

[Martin Weidmann]

So you are saying the videos are fake? Is that what you're saying? How about the hundreds of thousands that have been discovered to have only votes for Biden on them and no votes for other candidates or proposed amendments? How about the whistleblowers who have come forward about fraud involving mail-in ballots? How about the fact that in some counties, Democratic turnout was over 80%, sometimes over 90%, a phenomenon that is not only markedly unprecedented but that election analysts say is essentially impossible.

You are seeing what you want to see in those videos and pictures, or even worse what Guiliani and his ilk wants you to see. There are no "hundreds of thousands ballots that have only votes for Biden on them". You can not show one instance, one courtfiling in which any proof for this BS allegation is provided. It simply doesn't exist. Trump's lawyers in PA haven't cut ties with the Trump team for nothing. As officers of the court they risk their licence and reputation when they provide false information to the court.

Wow, talk about "alternate reality"! What do you mean Trump's lawyers have been unable "to produce any evidence of fraud"? That is pure fiction. I guess the left-wing news sources you trust are telling you there is no such evidence, and you are not bothering to examine the other side. You might start with this summary of the evidence by Trump election attorney Sidney Powell--then come back and tell me with a straight face that Trump's lawyers have cited no evidence of election fraud:

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6208201476001#sp=show-clips

And I ask you again, are you saying that the videos that show election fraud have been faked?

My words speak for themselves. I can't help it that you are so extremely gullible that you believe everything a lawyer says. Regardless of what Trump's lawyers say in the media, there hasn't been a shred of evidence provided in any the ten court cases the Trump team has already lost.

It doesn't matter what the likes of Guiliani, Sekulow and Powell claim they have. What matters is what they show the courts and so far they haven't shown anything of any significance. But don't believe me... The court's rulings are in the public domain. Why don't you try reading those before you say anything else that's completely stupid.

Btw, there is an easy way to verify (at least to some extend) the validity of the outrageous claims made by Powell on Fox News, on November 8. She is talking about a massive conspiracy to defraud the American people and to interfere with the elections. If true, those are serious crimes, yet, despite Bill Barr authorizing prosecutors to investigate, a week later no such investigation  has been started.

Even worse, Richard Pilger, director of the Election Crimes Branch of the Department of Justice, has resigned in protest about Barr's action as there is no credible evidence of any kind of fraud.

Uh, violating election law is a form of election fraud, so this has everything to do with election fraud. Do you care about the law? Do you believe elected officials should follow election law until it is changed via the democratic process? By Pennsylvania law, no ballots can be counted if they are received after election day, except for absentee ballots of military and diplomatic personnel stationed in other states and overseas. But the state's Democratic governor and secretary of state decided that the law was "unfair" and issued illegal orders to extend the deadline. Thankfully, the judge followed the law.

So, you are clueless about what constitutes a fraud and how the legal system works. Got it! 

And btw, no ballots have been thrown out in PA.

Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. Recounts are not automatic under Georgia law. If the margin of victory is below 1% or 0.5%, depending on the level of the election, a candidate can request a recount, but a recount is not automatic but is at the discretion of the Georgia secretary of state.

Whatever "news" sources told you that recounts are automatic in Georgia were wrong. You might want to consider expanding your news sources to include sources like The Federalist, The Daily Wire, The Blaze, Just the News, and Newsmax.

Newsmax? Really.... I have seen some of their output and found it highly comical and entertaining. If you consider that a credible news source you are not worth debating.

Ohhhhhhh! Really???!!!!! And how about what Democrats said about Stacey Abrams' race in Georgia *two years ago*? She demanded a recount, lost the recount, and never did concede, and you guys thought that was just fine. Or how about the 2000 election, when Al Gore refused to concede for **35 days**, when he lost the statewide recount, demanded recounts only in heavily Democratic counties, and then tried to get away with a phony statewide recount that was only going to recount the undervotes (since Gore believed the undervotes would tilt heavily for him)? Huh? You guys screamed bloody murder that Gore was entirely justified in refusing to concede and in demanding selective recounts.

Or how about Hillary's emphatic comment just a few months ago that Biden should not concede under any circumstances if he thought there was any indication of voter fraud? Hey? You people are incredible hypocrites.

Pathetic.

You have a problem with honesty, don't you? We both know that you have misleadingly cherry-picked your comparison countries. I think you and I have had this discussion before. As I have pointed out several times, Sweden's COVID-19 numbers are better than those of several other European nations and worse than those of other nations. Sweden falls somewhere toward the middle when it comes to COVID-19 numbers, yet Sweden has done this without suffering nearly as much economic damage as those other nations because Sweden had the good sense not to impose a lockdown but to keep businesses and most schools open.

And I notice you ignored the point that Sweden's daily COVID-19 deaths have dropped dramatically since August, and that if you adjust for population size, Sweden has had over 80% fewer daily deaths than America has had.

Or, let's compare Sweden's nearly flatline number of daily deaths to France's. Over the last 30 days, France has averaged nearly 500 daily deaths, compared to Sweden's average of 4 daily deaths. If we adjust Sweden's numbers for France's population size (66 million), 4 daily deaths equals 26 daily deaths. This means that Sweden's number of daily deaths, adjusted for population size, is over 6 times lower than France's number of daily deaths.

Facts are stubborn things.

You have a problem with honesty, don't you?

Nope, I have a problem with your kind of "honesty".

And I notice you ignored the point that Sweden's daily COVID-19 deaths have dropped dramatically since August,

As has the Covid-19 death rate in most European countries... I have been In Europe since the outbreak of the pandemic in March and follow the news on a daily basis. All over Europe infections are up again but the death rate is down compared to the first three months of the pandemic. Unlike in America where the infection rate and the death rate are both still climbing. Anybody who denies that is an absolute idiot.

Facts are stubborn things.

The BS that you make up are not facts.

[Colin Crow]

For Michael.....balance this with your lower death rate....

[Richard Smith]

Those hypocrite dems continue to get caught having large outings while telling everyone else to lockdown.  "Let Them Eat Ice Cream" Nancy just got caught again.  Nutty Newsom in CA just had a big party.   It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.  Using the pandemic as an excuse to steal the election.  Then pouring into the streets to celebrate.  Now telling everyone to close up while they go about their lives like 18th century royalty.   Trump finishes his presidency with a landmark achievement in distributing the vaccine.  A perfect set up for 2024.  Old Joe will struggle through his senile haze to do nothing or screw up whatever little he tries to do as he did his entire career.  He will blame the "republicans" for his failures just like Obama.  At some point he will step down or be removed for his obvious cognitive issues.  Kantala then runs on a record of Jimmy Carter-like failure in 2024. She is an unlikeable and less intelligent version of Hillary.  Reviled by everyone associated with her.  A Trump landslide in the making. 

[Michael T. Griffith]

Another fact update on COVID-19: Over the last three days, the death rate has dropped once again. Three days ago, the death rate was 2.3%--243K deaths/10.6 million cases. As of this morning, it is 2.26%--244K deaths/10.8 million cases. You can Google the numbers and do the simple math yourself. 244,000 deaths out of 10.8 million cases equals a case death rate of 2.26%, which means the average survival rate is 97.74%.

And when you break down the numbers by age group, you see that for about 60% of the U.S. population, COVID-19 poses either a lower risk than the flu or about the same risk as the flu. If you doubt this, go to the CDC or Johns Hopkins site and divide the number of cases by the number of deaths for the age groups that those sites use. And/or go to state websites and do the same calculation for the age groups they use. Different sites use different age groups. You will see that for ages 0-19, the death rate is far below the flu's death rate; that for ages 20-49, the death rate is nearly the same as that of the flu (0.11% to 0.29%, almost identical to the flu's death rate range); that for ages 50-64, the death rate is right around 1.97%, which equals a survival rate of 98.03%. Only with ages 65 and up does the death rate enter genuinely dangerous territory: it is around 14%, which still equals a survival rate of 86%, far, far better than the odds of beating most forms of cancer.

But liberals continue to scare people by focusing on the number of cases without telling people that the death rate continues to drop steadily. Nor do liberals bother to tell people that for weeks during the lockdowns, the death rate was over 5% and did not start to noticeably drop until states began to reopen. If more people had this crucial information, they would immediately begin to question the lockdown approach.

[Martin Weidmann]

Those hypocrite dems continue to get caught having large outings while telling everyone else to lockdown.  "Let Them Eat Ice Cream" Nancy just got caught again.  Nutty Newsom in CA just had a big party.   It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.  Using the pandemic as an excuse to steal the election.  Then pouring into the streets to celebrate.  Now telling everyone to close up while they go about their lives like 18th century royalty.   Trump finishes his presidency with a landmark achievement in distributing the vaccine.  A perfect set up for 2024.  Old Joe will struggle through his senile haze to do nothing or screw up whatever little he tries to do as he did his entire career.  He will blame the "republicans" for his failures just like Obama.  At some point he will step down or be removed for his obvious cognitive issues.  Kantala then runs on a record of Jimmy Carter-like failure in 2024. She is an unlikeable and less intelligent version of Hillary.  Reviled by everyone associated with her.  A Trump landslide in the making.

Hope, no matter how irrational, always dies last....

[Martin Weidmann]

Another fact update on COVID-19: Over the last three days, the death rate has dropped once again. Three days ago, the death rate was 2.3%--243K deaths/10.6 million cases. As of this morning, it is 2.26%--244K deaths/10.8 million cases. You can Google the numbers and do the simple math yourself. 244,000 deaths out of 10.8 million cases equals a case death rate of 2.26%, which means the average survival rate is 97.74%.

And when you break down the numbers by age group, you see that for about 60% of the U.S. population, COVID-19 poses either a lower risk than the flu or about the same risk as the flu. If you doubt this, go to the CDC or Johns Hopkins site and divide the number of cases by the number of deaths for the age groups that those sites use. And/or go to state websites and do the same calculation for the age groups they use. Different sites use different age groups. You will see that for ages 0-19, the death rate is far below the flu's death rate; that for ages 20-49, the death rate is nearly the same as that of the flu (0.11% to 0.29%, almost identical to the flu's death rate range); that for ages 50-64, the death rate is right around 1.97%, which equals a survival rate of 98.03%. Only with ages 65 and up does the death rate enter genuinely dangerous territory: it is around 14%, which still equals a survival rate of 86%, far, far better than the odds of beating most forms of cancer.

But liberals continue to scare people by focusing on the number of cases without telling people that the death rate continues to drop steadily. Nor do liberals bother to tell people that for weeks during the lockdowns, the death rate was over 5% and did not start to noticeably drop until states began to reopen. If more people had this crucial information, they would immediately begin to question the lockdown approach.

And when you break down the numbers by age group, you see that for about 60% of the U.S. population, COVID-19 poses either a lower risk than the flu or about the same risk as the flu.

But liberals continue to scare people by focusing on the number of cases without telling people that the death rate continues to drop steadily.

You just tell that to all the elderly people who will die from covid-19 in the next couple of months because they get infected by some idiot in their family or surroundings who listens to crap like you are spreading and doesn't take precautions believing that the risk for him- or herself is minimal.

Here's a thought for you; lockdowns and other measures could potentially be less severe if we, as a society, could rely on the selfrestraint and responsible behavior of all the people. Unfortunately, there are just too many selfish idiots out there who only care for themselves and will cross every line the first chance they get. Give them a finger and they'll take a hand.

Hang on, come to think of it... that's not really a thought for you, now is it? You're one of the money over people crowd!