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Author Topic: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2  (Read 411539 times)

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3088 on: December 31, 2020, 06:12:23 PM »
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Senator Josh Hawley, Republican of Missouri, has just figured out a clever way to curry favor with the voters. If he doesn’t object to the Electoral slates, Trump voters will be mad at him, or at least have no enthusiasm for him. It he does object to the Electoral ballots, because Trump is the “real winner”, moderate Republicans and Independents will be mad at him for attempting a coup.

But, if he objects to the Electoral College slates, not on the basis that “Trump really won” but on the basis of “highlighting alleged irregularities” in the Election, the Trump fanatics will be grateful to him and the moderates won’t be mad at him.

Well, not all moderates. I will never vote for Josh Hawley for any office. I won’t tolerate any kind of support for Trump’s steal the election effort. Nice try Josh.

He's throwing red meat to the base.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3088 on: December 31, 2020, 06:12:23 PM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3089 on: December 31, 2020, 06:27:25 PM »



There were something like 80 million votes for Old Joe.  A person who largely decided not to campaign.  A frail, old white guy who has run for president several times and never generated more than one percent of the democrat votes before dropping out of those races.  But suddenly he receives more votes than Reagan, JFK, Clinton, Obama or anyone who ever ran?  LOL.  And not by a small margin.  He exceeded Obama - a wildly popular and dynamic candidate - by something like 15 million votes.  Was it "fraud"?  Maybe not.  But the change to mail in voting was a significant alteration of the election process.   

Those changes demonstrably favored Old Joe and he would have lost in a landslide if most most states had not used the pandemic as an excuse to fundamentally change the election process in a way that most favored the dems.  Old Joe received 60-90% of the mail in votes.  And the CDC and Fauci - those trusted "scientists" dems love so much - both confirmed that it was safe to vote in person.  There was no health-related reason to change the established voting requirements.  That was done for purely political purposes as were many decisions made during the pandemic.   But that is water under the bridge. I've never seen winners cry so much.  Old Joe won.  Enjoy four years of nothing getting done, the economy collapsing under higher taxes, and rampant crime.  When it is all over in 2024 just blame the failures on the republicans like Obama did.

Again, here Richard seems to accept it was probably not fraud but changing the rules before the election. Which they did change the rules before the election. Which I see no problem with. For one, they had valid reasons to change them, the pandemic. Yes, going to the polls is no more dangerous than going grocery shopping, assuming the lines aren’t too long. And secondly, making it more convenient to vote is something that I see as a plus. Particularly since voting at the polls is not equally challenging for everyone. It is generally more difficult in urban area where long lines are more common.

So, I don’t think Richard would disagree with me that in 2020, making it potentially equally convenient for everyone to vote allowed the Democratic candidate to do better than he would in a more typical election. Where we do disagree is that he seems to think of this as being a bad thing.

As an aside, I noticed that Richard Smith made 106 posts in December so far. It appears you had to make a large search to find anything that could be construed as being a conspiracy theory. And failed.

So, despite your attempt to shoehorn Richard Smith into the Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy camp, he really doesn’t belong there. Instead, in our extremely small sample size, it appears that JFK LSE-CTers are more likely to be 2020 Election LSE-CTers than LNers. Which makes logical sense.

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3090 on: December 31, 2020, 06:33:33 PM »

You're arguing semantics. Richard Smith repeats Trump propaganda ( lies) constantly.

Repeating Trump propaganda lies does not make one an LSE-CTer as far as the 2020 Election is concerned. Not all of Trump lies are conspiracy theories. Does Richard say that hundreds of programmers working for Dominion Voting Systems coded the machines to allow a Biden win? Does he say that poll workers throughout the country smuggled in bogus ballots to count? Richard would have to repeat certain lies of Trump, not any old lie, to be an LSE-CTer.

Again, where is the post by Richard Smith that talks of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy theory?

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3090 on: December 31, 2020, 06:33:33 PM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3091 on: December 31, 2020, 06:38:47 PM »

You don’t think claims of a “rigged” election or a Hunter Biden coverup qualify as conspiracy theories?

Those conspiracy theories, both of which are backed by lots of evidence, pale in comparison to the wholly fictional, totally bogus Russian collusion conspiracy theory that the Democrats peddled for the first half of Trump's presidency (until the tale got destroyed by the Mueller report, and then got destroyed even more thoroughly during the Senate impeachment trial).

There. I can effortlessly find quotes from Griffith and Fritzke where they talk about the massive evidence for a 2020 election conspiracy theory. Where is the Richard Smith quote that is remotely like this?

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3092 on: December 31, 2020, 07:06:44 PM »
The Democratic Party is not some sort of religious sect, it's a political party. Viewing it as a type of religion, as keepers of the Truth (with a capital "T") while opponents are evil heretics is both wrong and dangerous and is a direct threat to the liberal tradition that we all say we believe in. And yes, substitute Republican for Democrat and this type of thinking occurs as well. This is not just one party doing this. Too many good people - and they are good people - on both sides think like this. Trump has made it worse but it didn't start with him and won't end when he leaves.

This type of thinking, this quasi-Manichaean worldview, is why in large part the country is so divided (although I'm not sure among "ordinary" folks the divisions are so great; at least I hope not). Each side views the other as simply evil, as malevolent, as members of a dangerous tribe that must be destroyed. They have no legitimate point of view and any accommodation with them is a compromise with evil. This destroys the "liberal tradition" that has worked, that has helped us make a better country  (and world). The US had done some terrible things; but we've tried to fix them.

Good grief, we have to stop this type of thinking. It'll destroy us.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 08:31:50 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3092 on: December 31, 2020, 07:06:44 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3093 on: December 31, 2020, 07:36:34 PM »
The Democratic Party is not some sort of religious sect, it's a political party. Viewing it as a type of religion, as keepers of the Truth (with a capital "T") while opponents are evil heretics is both wrong and dangerous and is a direct threat to the liberal tradition that we all say we believe in. And yes, substitute Republican for Democrat and this type of thinking occurs as well. This is not just one party doing this.

This thinking, this quasi-Manichaean worldview, is why in large part the country is so divided (although I'm not sure among "ordinary" folks the divisions are so great; at least I hope not). Each side views the other as evil, as malevolent, as members of a dangerous tribe that must be destroyed. They have no legitimate point of view and any accommodation with them is a compromise with evil.

Good grief, we have to stop this type of thinking. It'll destroy us.

Good grief, we have to stop this type of thinking. It'll destroy us.

The voice of reason!  Thumb1:

Let's hope reason will prevail in 2021.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3094 on: December 31, 2020, 09:01:40 PM »
Those conspiracy theories, both of which are backed by lots of evidence,

No, they are “backed” by a lot of claims and no demonstrable or verifiable evidence.

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pale in comparison to the wholly fictional, totally bogus Russian collusion conspiracy theory that the Democrats peddled for the first half of Trump's presidency (until the tale got destroyed by the Mueller report, and then got destroyed even more thoroughly during the Senate impeachment trial).

The Mueller report did nothing of the kind.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3095 on: December 31, 2020, 09:06:28 PM »
Nothing here about a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy.

“Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy” is your qualifier, not anybody else’s.

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Is Richard suggesting a large group of people conspirer together to made bogus ballots? Or a bunch of people, independently of each other, submitted a bogus ballot from a dead relative? Richard doesn’t say. Although his saying this should not be called “fraud” strongly implies he does not go along with the conspiracy possibility but leans toward the second possibility. How could he think there was a conspiracy to mail in bogus ballots and not consider it fraud?

He claimed that election laws were changed in order to change the election results (neither of which is demonstrable), and by the way conveniently ignores that election laws were changed in states that Trump won too.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #3095 on: December 31, 2020, 09:06:28 PM »