Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2

[Rick Plant]

Ted Cruz caught on tape plotting Jan. 6 Coup: Ari Melber exclusive

In an MSNBC exclusive, MSNBC Chief Legal Correspondent Ari Melber reports on new tape recordings of Sen. Ted Cruz and Fox's Maria Bartiromo. Cruz is caught pushing a fake “commission” to steal the 2020 election and outlining his plot just four days prior to January 6th, 2021.

Melber breaks down the damaging "Cruz tapes" and how Cruz went from a Trump foe to a planner of 2020 plot for Trump.

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New ‘Cruz Tapes’ show plot to steal election for Trump: Melber breakdown

"The Cruz tapes,” first reported on “The Beat,” put new heat on GOP Senator Ted Cruz and reveal his plot to steal the 2020 election before January 6. The Washington Post reporting the tapes shed “new light on scope of Cruz’s scheming to assist Trump in overturning Biden’s victory." Cruz admitting the tapes reflect his plan in his response to “The Beat’s” report. It comes as Gerry Filippatos, lawyer for Fox News whistleblower Abby Grossberg, tells MSNBC Chief Legal Correspondent Ari Melber the DOJ wants internal Fox News tapes about January 6.

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Jack Smith is Covering TONS of Ground in January 6th Inquiry

After a few weeks of reported subpoenas and interviews from Jack Smith's office, Harry takes stock of everything we know about the investigation into Donald Trump's involvement in both January 6th and the various schemes to overturn the eleciton results.

TALKING FEDS PODCAST is a roundtable discussion that brings together prominent former government officials, journalists, and special guests for a dynamic and in-depth analysis of the most pressing questions in law and politics.

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[Rick Plant]

You know you’re having a bad day when news surfaces about the grand jury that’s in the process of criminally indicting you, and you have to ask “Which grand jury?” That’s the position Donald Trump found himself in on Tuesday, when news surfaced out of a pair of grand juries in different jurisdictions.

First came the news that DOJ Special Counsel Jack Smith’s 2020 election related grand jury reconvened for eight hours on Tuesday, but according to NBC News, didn’t appear to hear from any witnesses. This probably means the grand jury spent the day working on indictments, and could theoretically start issuing them any day now.

Then came the news that Fulton County was seating the grand jury that is widely expected to bring the indictments requested by District Attorney Fani Willis. This process could take perhaps a few weeks, before indictments are issued.

This all seems bad enough for Donald Trump, until you remember that he’s already been criminally indicted twice now. These will be his third and fourth criminal indictments. He’s on track to end up having several criminal trials, on hundreds of combined felony charges. The news just keeps getting worse for him. At this point Trump must be hiding under his desk.



Former Mueller prosecutor thinks more states should go after Trump for election fraud



A former senior prosecutor to special counsel Robert Mueller wants to see more states press charges over the fake electors' conspiracy.

Andrew Weissmann was speaking as a grand jury in Fulton County reconvened to consider if former President Donald Trump acted to overturn the result in Georgia after the 2020 general election, and as special counsel Jack Smith continues his federal probe into attempts to influence the result.

"What we're seeing is a very natural progression of the federal investigation," Weissmann explained on MSNBC Thursday. "For a long time, we focused on Georgia. But a natural question was why would they only focus on that one so-called swing state when there were issues that would appear to be happening in ...Arizona, in New Mexico, in Wisconsin. So, you always expect that there would be this broadening of the investigation to show the full nature of the conspiracy."

Michigan is another state which has started considering possible charges for fake electors.

Weissmann explained that state investigations are important not only because they would generate a "clean criminal case" but, in those states that pressed fake electors, there is a real chance of "clean charges" regarding making false statements and filing paperwork with federal officials to undermine the peaceful transfer of power.

But the other reason he supports state charges is that a future president can't pardon himself from convictions.

"You need to show they didn't have any legal basis and, as Tim pointed out, that there were no facts," Weissmann continued. "Still, to this day, there are no facts. To make a charge that's filing a false statement and a conspiracy to do the same, this is all sort of a natural progression that you see at the federal level.

"...Those state cases, if they are brought, are ones that will not be subject to a federal pardon if Donald Trump or an ally wins the White House. So, what we're hearing being done by the states is extremely important."

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[Rick Plant]

Bombshell testimony links Jared Kushner to stop-the-steal fundraising cash: legal analyst

Former lead investigator to the Jan. 6 committee, Timothy Heaphy, told MSNBC's Nicolle Wallace on Thursday as the news broke that, as facts developed around the 2020 election, Trump's rhetoric grew "increasingly inconsistent with the facts." That leads to the mindful criminality, he explained.

"It's fraudulent, to bilk people out of their money because it's an effective fund-raising scheme," Heaphy said. "All of it is important. There's a disconnect between the rhetoric and the facts."

Kushner, Heaphy argued, is fair game for investigators, despite being Trump's son-in-law, because Trump involved him in the White House.

"He's part of the president's family," Heaphy continued. He "was involved in discussions soon after the election in which the president was told directly that he lost. He was present for this meeting where the pollster, the data guy from the campaign, actually presented the numbers and went through the sort of explanation of the decreased margins in the suburban areas, and he was already starting to move to Florida."

During that Jan. 6 Committee testimony, he said he was out of town during the Jan. 6 attacks. He explained he was overseas to deal with his Abraham Accords project. He landed on the evening of Jan. 6 and the following day held a dinner party at his home.

It implied that he had very little to do with the Jan. 6 efforts, but according to experts talking about the report on MSNBC Thursday evening, Kushner had a lot to do with the financial aspect of the rally on the Ellipse that day.

Rubin recalled on Twitter that, besides Jason Miller, Trump and Kushner, "no one was more involved in post-election fundraising and related messaging than Jared."

The information came from advertising consultant Larry Weitzner, who spoke to the Jan. 6 committee, "The small circle working on post-election ads included Miller, Newt Gingrich, Trump's pollster and Jared."

Weitzner, she recalled, "also revealed that the one time he spoke to Trump about post-election ads, it was because Trump and Jared called him together on speakerphone to convey 'what they felt was wrong about the election process that might be considered for some ads.'"

He went on to recall to the committee that Kushner was the one pressing for the call and that Trump was the one they called the election "stolen" in a "very aggressive" term. Weitzner called it an example of "fire breathing" when emailing others.

Weitzner testified that in his emails with Miller editing three post-election ads, Gingrich was talking to both Trump and Kushner about the content. He was characterized as having a "critical role."

"He was directly involved in the campaign fundraising that then became the stop the steal fundraising," Heaphy said. "He was directly personally briefed almost daily about the cash machine, veritable, hand-over-fist money-making machine it was, the Stop the Steal.

"The Trump campaign pivoted to a fundraising operation, and Jared Kushner was right in the center of the strategy of mining the false narrative for repeated cash contributions of up to $250 million after the election. So, to the extent Jack Smith is looking into campaign fund-raising based on these false statements of election fraud, Jared Kushner would have information about that as well."

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Jack Smith is working to expose 'a broad national conspiracy' to keep Trump in power: CNN legal analyst

CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams on Thursday said that it appears that special counsel Jack Smith is leaving no stone unturned in his probe of Trump's efforts to illegally remain in power after losing the 2020 election to President Joe Biden.

In particular, Williams argued that Smith's thoroughness can be evidenced by his recent interview with Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, which suggests that the special counsel has not been limiting his probe to just one or two swing states.

"They have spoken to people in Georgia, Arizona, Nevada, and now Michigan," said Williams. "What I am seeing is a pretty broad national conspiracy touching on any aspect of election meddling or election interference. They could be building one massive case, the mother of all election conspiracy cases, that could be charged in any one jurisdiction bringing in evidence of all the others... it's pretty vast!"

Olivia Troye, a former national security adviser to Vice President Mike Pence, said that Smith's latest interviews appear to show that his investigation is nearing its conclusion and that charging decisions could be made soon.

"I think they're getting close to wrapping it up, hopefully," she said. "I think they need to move forward. I think they're now talking to people who are really there at the front lines of it from 2020, being bullied and intimidated by these individuals."

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[Rick Plant]

Prosecutors want to know if Trump knew he lost in 2020 and pushed forward anyway: report

The New York Times revealed Thursday that the latest updates on special counsel Jack Smith's case around the Jan. 6 attack and the attempt to overthrow the 2020 election is looking at possible corrupt intent.

Among the things that is being discussed by the special counsel's team is whether President Donald Trump clearly knew that he had lost the 2020 election, despite what he said publicly or his campaign touted.

Many witnesses, including Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner, had conversations with Trump that indicated he knew that he lost.

Others that interacted with Trump, like former communications director Alyssa Farah Griffin, had different views. She said that within weeks of the 2020 election, Trump asked her "Can you believe I lost to Joe Biden?"

“In that moment I think he knew he lost,” Griffin testified to the House select committee.

Witnesses were also asked about things that Trump was telling people in the summer before the election during the COVID pandemic.

Read the full report by the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/13/us/politics/kushner-grand-jury-trump.html



'The evidence shows a direct line' from Trump to 2020 coup plot: Michigan elections chief



Donald Trump is tied to illegal plotting to overturn the 2020 presidential election by a "direct line" of evidence, Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson told MSNBC's Nicolle Wallace on Thursday's edition of "Deadline: White House."

This comes after special counsel Jack Smith, who already secured an indictment against the former president for his classified document stash at Mar-a-Lago, interviewed Benson as part of his investigation of the January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol, and all the election subversion plots that led up to it.

"Certainly the evidence developed by the Select Committee leaves nothing to the imagination: this was a Trump-directed coup," said Wallace, after playing clips of Trump allies crediting him with being behind the movement to overturn the election. "The legal argument was fleshed out by John Eastman. They knew it violated the Electoral Count Act. Do you, from where you're sitting, have any doubt that the evidence, if Jack Smith wishes to pursue it, will take this plot all the way to Trump's doorstep?"

"I think the evidence certainly shows a direct line between the former president, the phone calls, the pressure that he himself exerted on the lawmakers and the State of Michigan, to local county certification boards. So the line is there," said Benson. "Of course, the public speeches that you just showed earlier as well demonstrate that. So I think his involvement is clear, and every drop of new evidence that emerges in the public arena only underscores that."

That being said, Benson added, "we have to remember it's not the only line, that there were a lot of co-conspirators, for lack of a better word, in my opinion. And all of it manifested itself in a multifaceted national, coordinated, illegal effort to interfere with the will of the voters and overturn it."

"The other component of that is the violence that followed, most notoriously on January 6th, which was also a very real consequence of those lies, beyond just the anti-democratic nature of them," said Benson. "So there needs to be culpability of all of that and the blood that was shed and the lives that were forever impacted because of those lies, not just again at the state level, but local officials as well. My confidence is that the Justice Department, as well as local and state prosecutors, are collectively casting a broad net, looking all of these things, with a goal not just of seeking justice, but ensuring that these don't escalate in the future or reoccur."

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[Rick Plant]

'There's so much evidence': ex-prosecutor outlines most straightforward charge to convict Trump



Special Counsel Jack Smith could ultimately bring a fresh round of indictments against former President Donald Trump and his associates, this time in connection with the January 6 investigation.

It remains unclear what those specific charges would be; however, former federal corruption prosecutor and Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington chief Noah Bookbinder told MSNBC's Chris Hayes on Thursday that one charge in particular would be easy to prove.

"Noah, one of the — if I'm not mistaken, in the draft prosecution memo that you were sort of coauthor on, one of the charges is conspiracy to defraud the U.S., and if I'm not mistaken, that's one of the charges the January 6 Committee looked at," said Hayes. "I have to say, as I look through it again, as a layperson, that jumps out to me. It's like, did you willfully try to defraud the government of the United States of something? And it's like, yeah. the most important thing, who would be the next leader of the country. What do you think about that?"

"I think in a lot of ways, that is the most straightforward of the charges," said Bookbinder. "I think an obstruction charge, obstruct doing a function of United States government ... is also extremely straightforward. But the conspiracy to defraud the United States government is basically saying that you were lying and you were doing it to prevent the government from doing a thing that it was supposed to do. And that's quite clear. There's so much evidence that Donald Trump, particularly through that false electors scheme, but also in trying to intimidate the Department of Justice to essentially lie to put pressure on states, that Donald Trump was taking these positions that he knew were false to try to stop the government from doing what it was supposed to do, which was to count and certify the votes in the election and choose the next president."

"I think that one is pretty straight down the middle, if they are able to get into court and have an impartial jury and put this case in front of them," concluded Bookbinder.

This case would be on top of the obstruction and Espionage Act charges brought against Trump in the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case.

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Trump had 'no legal right' to overturn the election even if he thought he won: expert



One of the most important elements for special counsel Jack Smith to establish in order to charge former President Donald Trump in connection with the plots to overturn the 2020 presidential election, is to establish his intent — something he is attempting to do with his new interviews with Hope Hicks and Jared Kushner.

But crucially, New York University law professor and former Pentagon special counsel Ryan Goodman told a CNN panel on Thursday, that does not mean Smith has to prove Trump didn't truly believe that the election was stolen from him.

"The best possible evidence they can get — and we don't know exactly whether Jared Kushner or Hope Hicks gave them this — is Donald Trump acknowledging that he knows he lost," said former federal prosecutor Elie Honig. "It's one thing to be told by certain people that he lost, because there were other people telling him he did not lose. If you can get it out of his mouth that he knows he lost, that's golden evidence for prosecutors."

"I agree ... that intent is essential," said Goodman. "I agree with Elie that it would be super important and very valuable to the prosecutor if they could prove that Trump knew he lost." However, he added, "I don't think they need that. Even the way The New York Timesreports it, they say if the prosecutor had that information, it could bolster his case or it could make it a more robust case, that's true. But there's so many other ways this could be prosecuted and it doesn't matter."

"Trump could have thought he won the election," Goodman continued. "It doesn't give him any legal right to pressure Mike Pence to violate his oath. That would be a separate crime. It doesn't give him any legal right to have a scheme to create false slates of electors who declare they're the rightful electors and to submit to congress to gum up the works, and if the prosecutor also charges former President Trump for the violence on January 6th, it does not matter whether or not he thought he won."

"I do want to mention, Hope Hicks did give explosive testimony before the January 6th committee on that particular issue," added Goodman. "There's an open question, the prosecutors, were they also asking her about that, because she testified and there were text messages that she advised President Trump on January 4th and 5th, please stay peaceful on January 5th and he refused her advice. That's in the final report from the Select Committee."

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Trump creates 'alternate realities' to confuse juries – and it won't work: legal expert



A legal expert believes Donald Trump is seeking to convince potential jurors that he couldn’t have committed crimes in connection with the Jan. 6 attack on the Capital if he didn’t believe what he was doing was illegal, but that the former president's legal strategy isn’t going anywhere.

And this isn't the first time he’s doing it, former DOJ Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security Mary McCord said Thursday during an appearance on MSNBC’s “All In with Chris Hayes.”

“This pattern we see with Trump, I mean, a lot of it is playing to the public, but I think he knows that juries, grand juries, and petit juries, the ones who sit in trial, are also all part of that public that he's been playing to for so long,” McCord said.

Hayes likened Trump’s legal strategy to a delusional defendant in a bank heist who claims holding up a teller isn’t a crime because the robber was only reclaiming money that belonged to them in the first place.

“Even if you genuinely believe that, you're not in good shape,” Hayes said.

“In every matter, what he does is he creates, in a way, this alternate reality for himself,” McCord said.

“In the Mar-a-Lago documents case it's that he had the power to determine that all presidential records were actually personal records, or on a different day…he might also say that he actually declassified them all, and then he lives in that world, I think in order to almost to create what he thinks is going to be a defense, you know. I couldn't have committed a crime when I was so overwhelmingly out there saying these things, but that’s just not how the law works, and I think that that's going to fail in this case."

“If there is an indictment brought and if that's what he tries…his purported lack of knowledge that he lost is not going to be a legal defense here.”

[Rick Plant]

Faux News is getting sued again for their lies and conspiracy theories but this time by their own former viewer.

Former Trump supporter sues Fox News over Jan. 6 conspiracy theory
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/former-trump-supporter-sues-fox-news-over-jan-6-conspiracy-theory

[Rick Plant]

Legal expert 'increasingly confident' second federal Trump indictment coming soon

A legal expert said Friday that a published report indicating prosecutors have interviewed secretaries of state for Pennsylvania and New Mexico in recent months suggests a second federal indictment against Donald Trump is likely.

Legal analyst Lisa Rubin during an appearance on MSNBC’s “Alex Wagner Tonight” was responding to a CNN report that special counsel Jack Smith is focusing on the seven battlegrounds that were key to Joe Biden’s 2020 electoral victory over Trump.

Marshall Cohen and Maxime Tamsett write for CNN's website that "Smith’s team has sent subpoenas to local and state officials in all seven of the key states – Georgia, New Mexico, Nevada, Michigan, Arizona, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin – that were targeted by Trump and his allies and where Trump’s campaign convened the false electors as part of the effort to subvert the Electoral College."

Wagner asked Rubin about the timing of a potential second federal indictment, suggesting it could occur before Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis decides whether to indict Trump on allegations that he tried to interfere with the 2020 election in Georgia.

Willis earlier this year suggested a decision on whether to indict the former president would likely happen in August.

“I won't be as confident to say in the next 10 days, but I do think that the way that they've gone about this could be a signal of what they're going to do when we do see a January 6 indictment and I am increasingly confident that we will see one,” Rubin said.

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[Rick Plant]

'Unusual' activity in Georgia points to Trump facing 'massive conspiracy case': ex-prosecutor

Donald Trump will likely soon be hit with a "massive conspiracy case" out of Georgia for allegedly attempting to overturn the election there, and there could be dozens of defendants who join him, according to a former prosecutor.

Former prosecutor Glenn Kirschner appeared on MSNBC to discuss Trump's criminal probe and case, and was asked about Trump's legal woes in Georgia. It has been reported that the prosecutor there, Fani Willis, is nearing a charging decision.

Kirschner noted that he has been expecting a large case from Willis, perhaps charging around a dozen people, because of actions she took before this month.

"I became convinced that the district attorney Fani Willis was going to indict probably a massive conspiracy case when she did something that was really unusual. I had never seen it done as a prosecutor. She sent a letter to the judges of Fulton County, the Fulton County court, saying that we respectfully request that you set no trials for two weeks in august," he said. "The week of august 7th and 14th, and you set no in-person hearings during those two weeks. That is an incredible ask of a prosecutor to courts, please clear your dockets, clear the decks."

He added:

The "only really inference there is that she knows full well that she is going to drop a mass of conspiracy indictment that will probably include, according to one of the grand jurors who gave some interviews after the special purpose grand jury had concluded its work, perhaps dozens of people. She is going to need those two weeks to run all of those defendants through court for their arraignment. That is their first court appearance. It is going to take time and she's asked the judges to clear their decks for two weeks in August so she can do that."

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