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Author Topic: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2  (Read 414100 times)

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2272 on: October 29, 2020, 10:25:57 PM »
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We wage valiant war against misinformation.
Thank you, noble Iacolletti, for raising your sword in combat.
Fellow knights: To the battlements!

Sir Taunt-alot.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2272 on: October 29, 2020, 10:25:57 PM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2273 on: October 29, 2020, 11:32:42 PM »
A few points in reply regarding COVID-19:

* Citing population density to explain away Michigan's bad COVID-19 numbers compared to Sweden's is unconvincing. If Michigan's draconian lockdown measures were the right approach, population density should not matter, given the fact that Swedes have been out of their homes a great deal more than have Michigan's residents. Furthermore, Taiwan's population density (1,680 per square mile) is more than double Michigan's, yet Taiwan has had fewer cases and deaths than any nation on earth.

* We can all Google the fact that the panic-peddling experts cited so often by liberals screamed bloody murder that we would see massive numbers of new deaths in states that began to reopen in May. Not only has this *not* happened, but the case death rate has dropped by more than 50% since states began to reopen. Yet, Democrats continue to scream about the increase in the number of cases, while they ignore the dramatic drop in the death rate.

* Cases where sizable groups of people were isolated when COVID-19 broke out, such as three notable cruise ship cases, prove that the virus's transmission rate is nowhere near as high as liberals keep claiming. In all those cases, the transmission rate was below 50%.

* If your only sources of news is the traditional news outlets, you will rarely if ever hear about the following facts:

-- That the overall average survival rate is over 97%.

-- That the death rate for ages 0-19 is between 0.01% and 0.09%, much lower than the flu's death rate.

-- That the death rate for ages 20 to 34 is no more dangerous than the common flu--the death rate is between 0.13% and 0.29%, virtually the same as the flu.

-- That the death rate for ages 35 to 49 is only 0.44%, or far below 1%, which, of course, equals a survival rate of 99.56%.

-- That the death rate for ages 50-59 is 1.49%, which equals a survival rate of 98.51%.

-- The the death rate for ages 60-100 ranges between 2.4% and 13.5%, since the death rate for ages 65-100 is much higher than it is for ages 60-64.

When people learn about these statistics, their first reaction is usually, "Then why in the world are we so panicked over this virus?"

* A rational, fact-based approach would be to impose strict protective measures on ages 65 and above and on the medically ill, and to let everyone else resume normal life. Instead of banning large gatherings or limiting large gatherings to 10K-20K people, lift all such restrictions but ban anyone aged 65 and older and the medically ill from attending. Instead of making everyone wear masks, only require masks for the aged and the medically ill.

Then, once we have a vaccine, the first groups to get it should be the aged and the medically ill. Once they've had the vaccine, they could resume normal life.

More right wing propaganda and disinformation.

Taiwan has the least amount of numbers because they locked down and all wore masks. Same thing in New Zealand and in Australia.

Sweden is having a horrible surge just like in South Dakota and North Dakota because they did NOTHING to prevent the spread of COVID.

The United States is at the worst point at anytime during the pandemic. 47 states have the most amount of infection, death, and hospitals are being overwhelmed.

People who contract the coronavirus are suffering from long term effects. You shouldn't be allowed to be posting dangerous health disinformation.


White House coronavirus taskforce warns of 'unrelenting' spread
US is going in ‘wrong direction’ says Fauci as Covid cases rise in 47 states and patients overwhelm hospitals across the US

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/29/white-house-coronavirus-taskforce-fauci-covid-spread

Sweden sets new daily COVID-19 case record as infections surge
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-sweden-cases/sweden-sets-new-daily-covid-19-case-record-as-infections-surge-idUSL8N2HJ5RE


Top Trump health official warns of 'draconian measures' if America doesn't mask up

In other coronavirus news: Trump sidelined experts early in pandemic, there are too many new cases in Philadelphia to track, and teens and tweens are volunteering for Covid-19 vaccine test trials.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/top-trump-health-official-warns-draconian-measures-if-america-doesn-n1245116


U.S. Coronavirus Cases Surpass 9 Million With No End In Sight: Cases rapidly increasing in 20 states as one Governor describes it an an 'urgent crisis' 
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/29/us/coronavirus-nine-million

US sets weekly record with over 500,000 new COVID-19 cases
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/523459-us-surpasses-500000-covid-cases-sets-new-weekly-record

An American dies from COVID-19 every 107 seconds
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/10/29/covid-19-trump-biden-halloween-nice-france-zeta-thursdays-news/6062655002/

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2274 on: October 29, 2020, 11:33:36 PM »
Sir Taunt-alot.
Taunt. Definition ( Oxford):  provoke or challenge someone with insulting remarks.
You do realize that you are guilty of that which you accuse me of?
Have a nice day.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2274 on: October 29, 2020, 11:33:36 PM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2275 on: October 30, 2020, 12:47:34 AM »
US: 81,000 new cases yesterday. 1,000 deaths.
228,000 deaths in total.

Let's play " Ask a Scientist "".
Mr Crow: What's the future for the US and Covid19?
( As a layman, I see a very dark future.)

When I first started looking at the mortality rates with outbreaks occurring in Western Countries with modern Health Systems that were not overwhelmed at the time, it appeared to me that the overall final death rate would be about 0.7%. That is, when all was said and done COVID-19 would be about 5x more lethal than the annual flu. From memory I did this cursory analysis in Feb-March and it included no data from China.

We would have to crystal ball gaze to see what the possibilities are from here. That involves some knowns, assumptions and unknowns.

We now know that a reasonable percentage of the infected can transmit asymptomatically or presymtomatically. This makes Covid more dangerous than SARS.

Airborne transmission seems a major route of infection.

It is possible that the viral load at exposure is a determinant of severity of infection. This is common for all microbial pathogens. There is a threshold for each individual above which you succumb relating to your innate immune system. As this is novel virus to humans we have to rely on this component when initial exposure occurs. This point needs to be considered for effective mask wearing.

It appears that immunity will be long lasting. There were fears that it might be transient and people could get reinfected. It looks now that it is likely to be years.

The virus needs humans to multiply so that it is dependent on human socialisation/interaction behaviours entirely. Sweden is often sited as a country that did not impose strict lockdowns but the general population generally altered their behaviours voluntarily. Their travel patterns decreased significantly.

The biggest unknown from my perspective is the possibility of long term health effects on those who recover. It appears to be significant on some but unfortunately only time can tell.

No Vaccine, or poor uptake of vaccine.

Herd immunity without an effective vaccine is not an option. Anyone can do the math on that. You could attempt it by deliberately exposing all of the "low risk" group over a short period, even if felt desirable this would be medically unethical. I haven’t checked the population range in the USA but unless the low risk group represents well over 80% this method would not result in the desired effect and the virus would always remain in the population ready to infect the vulnerable. The Spanish (really American) Flu went around the world a couple of times, killing millions but eventually mutated and became part of the seasonal flu population. There was no vaccine to it. They did not even know it was a virus at the time. So for latest virus we would be relying on a mutation that made the virus less lethal in the absence of an effective vaccine (or therapeutics).

Vaccine

There is optimism of the development of at least one effective vaccine. At this stage it would seem at least six months away. The testing needs to be finalised, that is it is safe and effective in preventing infection for the vast majority.

It will required upscaling in production and distribution. It also required uptake by the population. This might be the biggest problem currently with adoption of a vaccine.

I also agree that strict lockdowns can only be effective for a limited time. Humans are naturally social and there are huge economic implications to this also. The trick is getting the mix best we can.

To John’s question for the USA, let’s assume Biden wins. Trump is in power until January.

With no vaccine (or poor uptake), all you really have is long term behaviour alteration as defence. The old team, hand washing, social distancing and masks etc. that’s a tough haul. If you talk about deaths, it seems to be around 1000 per day at present. It does not seem to be going up with the case rate as it did initially, so let’s all hope it doesn’t.

Let’s assume that even after the election result there is not much behavioural change regards to the virus. At 1,000 deaths per day that would be another 80,000 deaths, for a total of more than 300,000. That would be my best guess at present. Cases is harder to predict, the category to fear is hospitalisations. The last thing the USA needs is a hospital system swamped over the Christmas New Year period.

After Biden takes office I would expect to see little meaningful change in rates until the vaccine is available. Let’s hope that confidence in science is restored enough so that the general population will willingly be vaccinated for the good of all.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 12:55:27 AM by Colin Crow »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2276 on: October 30, 2020, 02:45:24 AM »
Taunt. Definition ( Oxford):  provoke or challenge someone with insulting remarks.
You do realize that you are guilty of that which you accuse me of?
Have a nice day.

I don't think taunting is exclusive to me.
  • "And it's my fault you are clueless?"
  • "Sorry to break it to you, but Nazi "useful idiot" Gerry Ford isn't running."
  • "This thread=waste of bandwidth."
  • "Shouldn't you be busy injecting bleach, or having ultraviolet light beamed into you?"
  • "As always, thanks for the laughs."
  • "And, sadly, there is no vaccine for stupid."
  • "My condolences if you haven't figured that out."
  • "Or do you not have the "balls" to do that?"
  • "Look it up, you might learn something."

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2276 on: October 30, 2020, 02:45:24 AM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2277 on: October 30, 2020, 06:27:26 AM »
Kushner to Woodward, “The most dangerous people around the president are overconfident idiots.” He also added that Trump had replaced said idiots with “more thoughtful people who kind of know their place."

I assume these would be now be classified as underconfident idiots and fewer overconfident ones....idiots all nonetheless.

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2278 on: October 30, 2020, 01:50:19 PM »
I don't think taunting is exclusive to me.
  • "And it's my fault you are clueless?"
  • "Sorry to break it to you, but Nazi "useful idiot" Gerry Ford isn't running."
  • "This thread=waste of bandwidth."
  • "Shouldn't you be busy injecting bleach, or having ultraviolet light beamed into you?"
  • "As always, thanks for the laughs."
  • "And, sadly, there is no vaccine for stupid."
  • "My condolences if you haven't figured that out."
  • "Or do you not have the "balls" to do that?"
  • "Look it up, you might learn something."
Gee, I have a groupie.
Have a nice day. : )

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2279 on: October 30, 2020, 01:50:51 PM »
Trump et al represent the 'mental' in 'judgemental'.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 01:59:02 PM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2279 on: October 30, 2020, 01:50:51 PM »