Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2

[John Iacoletti]

Richard has been posting disinformation, propaganda, and conspiracy theories for months regarding politics and COVID-19.   

“Richard” has likewise been posting disinformation and propaganda about the JFK assassination for years.

[John Iacoletti]

Is there any particular post of his you can point out that would show this? Not posting disinformation or propaganda. But of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy of some sort that he believes in.

You don’t think claims of a “rigged” election or a Hunter Biden coverup qualify as conspiracy theories?

[Joe Elliott]

You don’t think claims of a “rigged” election or a Hunter Biden coverup qualify as conspiracy theories?

I’ve seen posts by Michael T. Griffith and Allan Fritzke about the rigged election. I have not seen a post from Richard Smith about this. But there again, I haven’t gone through all 300 some pages of posts on this subject so I don’t know. But if there is a post about a rigged election by Richard Smith, I would like someone to provide a link to it, or at least say what page number it is on and the date and time the post was made.

I haven’t followed the Hunter Biden laptop case at all. I heard that one “investigator” tried to steer a witness into finding involvement from his father. So, I get the impression that this Hunter Biden laptop investigation is bogus. But I haven’t really looked into it. And I don’t know if the people, or all the people, who think Hunter Biden’s laptop has incriminating information on it are believers in a Large-Secret-Enduring conspiracy theory. Clearly that is true for the “rigged election” hypotheses, but I don’t know about the Hunter Biden laptop accusations.

I suspect there are some JFK LNers who do believe in some other LSE-CT. And perhaps Richard is one of them. But I suspect that beliefs in other LSE-CT is more common among the JFK CTers than the JFK LNers.

[Joe Elliott]

A point I would like to make about the 2020-Rigged-Election hypothesis, is that believers in this have no problem finding lots of witnesses who back them up. They find all sorts of witnesses who observed all sorts of shenanigans like multiple counting of the same ballots or bringing out “hidden suitcases” (really normal ballot containers kept under tables but in plain sight the whole time). Hard to believe because this conspiracy would involve thousands of people. But when the ballots are recounted manually, the machine counts and the manual counts are very close. The physical evidence, the ballots, show that all these witnesses are wrong. One of the parallels in the JFK assassination case is Oswald’s shooting ability. CTers have no problem of finding witnesses who testify that they were in the Marine boot camp and witness how terrible a shot Oswald was but they waved him through after his first failed firing test. Hard to believe because Marines are big sticklers for teaching recruits how to shoot straight and if a recruit can’t shoot straight, they will train him again and again, while using certain “physical encouragement” techniques until he damm well does shoot straight. Until then, life can become uncomfortable if they think you are not trying. And again, all this testimony contradicts the physical evidence, Oswald’s Marine shooting score book that shows he not only passed, he did better than most recruits who only qualify as ‘Marksman’. Oswald qualified for the next higher category, ‘Sharpshooter’. And Oswald’s mother held onto to his Marine shooting score book starting in 1956. Where they making fake evidence that Oswald was a good shooter back in 1956?

2020-Rigged-Election hypothesis said there are all these suspicion connections with Dominion Voting Systems with Venezuela and other countries. But again, the physical evidence, the manual recounting of over 5,000,000 ballots, show the software was accurate. Again, lots of parallels in the JFK case is all the connections one finds with Ruby and the Mafia, Ruby with the CIA, Ruby with Oswald, and various other characters who crossed paths with Oswald’s alleged connections with the CIA. Bogus conspiracy theorists have no problem finding desired connections in either case.

2020-Rigged-Election hypothesis said that many of the mail in ballots were mass produced. But, again, this hypothesis is countered by the physical evidence. A county in Georgia compared the signatures on all 150,000 mail in ballots and found they corresponded with the signatures on file. But I suppose they can argue that in the meantime, the swapped out the original bogus ballots and swapped in high quality forgeries. Just like all the planted evidence in the JFK case. CE-399, bullet fragments, bogus autopsy, fake palmprint, fake paperwork, fake photographs, fake film.

There are many strong parallels between the 2020-Rigged-Election CTers and the JFK CTers. I don’t see a big difference between the two groups.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

I’ve seen posts by Michael T. Griffith and Allan Fritzke about the rigged election. I have not seen a post from Richard Smith about this. But there again, I haven’t gone through all 300 some pages of posts on this subject so I don’t know. But if there is a post about a rigged election by Richard Smith, I would like someone to provide a link to it, or at least say what page number it is on and the date and time the post was made.

I haven’t followed the Hunter Biden laptop case at all. I heard that one “investigator” tried to steer a witness into finding involvement from his father. So, I get the impression that this Hunter Biden laptop investigation is bogus. But I haven’t really looked into it. And I don’t know if the people, or all the people, who think Hunter Biden’s laptop has incriminating information on it are believers in a Large-Secret-Enduring conspiracy theory. Clearly that is true for the “rigged election” hypotheses, but I don’t know about the Hunter Biden laptop accusations.

I suspect there are some JFK LNers who do believe in some other LSE-CT. And perhaps Richard is one of them. But I suspect that beliefs in other LSE-CT is more common among the JFK CTers than the JFK LNers.

As with you, I've not read anything in the posts by Richard Smith where he says there was a conspiracy to rig the election for Biden. I just scanned them again and unless I am missing it I simply don't see it. Again, he may have but I don't recall it.

As to the Hunter Biden laptop: His complaint - and mine - is that Twitter and Facebook both banned anyone using their network from promoting/linking/repeating the story about the laptop and, more important, emails on it that was first reported by the New York Post. Jack Dorsey, the owner of Twitter, admitted that the banning was improper and wrong and he had it stopped. Facebook too now allows the story to be disseminated. After the election, it was reported - and verified - that the FBI is investigating Hunter Biden for allegations of money laundering.

Just to add: some of the documents found on the laptop had FBI serial numbers on them indicating that they had been collected by the FBI for an investigation. That doesn't mean Biden was guilty of anything of course; but it is a story worth reporting and talking about. And it does show, to me, that this was not, as alleged by some, a Russian disinformation effort. Hunter Biden has never denied that the laptop was his and the emails - some of them - have been verified.

Constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley, a self-described Democrat, discussed these document and the serial numbers here:  https://jonathanturley.org/2020/10/22/biden-laptop-was-subpoenaed-by-the-fbi-in-2019-as-part-of-a-money-laundering-investigation/

Look, there's a long sordid history in Washington of politicians and family members and friends using their influence and connections to make money. To sell access to foreign corporations in particular. And it's been done by members of both parties. Is this an example of it? I don't know. And it doesn't mean Joe Biden is guilty of anything at all. But, to be frank, Hunter Biden is simply not a very reputable person (yes, and neither were Trump associates either).

The classic definition of a conspiracy, one I use, is two more people secretly getting together to do something illegal. Nowhere has Richard alleged that what Twitter or Facebook did was illegal. He says, as I do, that they had the absolute right to ban dissemination of the story. The dispute is over whether that decision was warranted. I guess it depends on what one defines as a conspiracy.

[Joe Elliott]

As with you, I've not read anything in the posts by Richard Smith where he says there was a conspiracy to rig the election for Biden. I just scanned them again and unless I am missing it I simply don't see it. Again, he may have but I don't recall it.

That would explain why, after many days of asking, no one ever points to me a specific post by Richard Smith. Just a lot of claims about what a big conspiracy believer he is as far as the 2020 election is concerned. But no reference to any such posts. Maybe I should stop asking for an example, but as long as they post about Richard’s belief in the 2020 stolen election, I’ll keep asking.

As to the Hunter Biden laptop: His complaint - and mine - is that Twitter and Facebook both banned anyone using their network from promoting/linking/repeating the story about the laptop and, more important, emails on it that was first reported by the New York Post. Jack Dorsey, the owner of Twitter, admitted that the banning was improper and wrong and he had it stopped. Facebook too now allows the story to be disseminated. After the election, it was reported - and verified - that the FBI is investigating Hunter Biden for allegations of money laundering.

Just to add: some of the documents found on the laptop had FBI serial numbers on them indicating that they had been collected by the FBI for an investigation. That doesn't mean Biden was guilty of anything of course; but it is a story worth reporting and talking about. And it does show, to me, that this was not, as alleged by some, a Russian disinformation effort. Hunter Biden has never denied that the laptop was his and the emails - some of them - have been verified.

Constitutional law professor Jonathan Turley, a self-described Democrat, discussed these document and the serial numbers here:  https://jonathanturley.org/2020/10/22/biden-laptop-was-subpoenaed-by-the-fbi-in-2019-as-part-of-a-money-laundering-investigation/

Look, there's a long sordid history in Washington of politicians and family members and friends using their influence and connections to make money. To sell access to foreign corporations in particular. And it's been done by members of both parties. Is this an example of it? I don't know. And it doesn't mean Joe Biden is guilty of anything at all. But, to be frank, Hunter Biden is simply not a very reputable person (yes, and neither were Trump associates either).

The classic definition of a conspiracy, one I use, is two more people secretly getting together to do something illegal. Nowhere has Richard alleged that what Twitter or Facebook did was illegal. He says, as I do, that they had the absolute right to ban dissemination of the story. The dispute is over whether that decision was warranted. I guess it depends on what one defines as a conspiracy.

This all sounds reasonable and plausible. I guess my kneejerk reaction is, that with Trump pushing this narrative, I tend to be skeptical. But certainly, Hunter Biden could be involved in the common sort of shenanigans that the rich get themselves involved in.

[Joe Elliott]

Senator Josh Hawley, Republican of Missouri, has just figured out a clever way to curry favor with the voters. If he doesn’t object to the Electoral slates, Trump voters will be mad at him, or at least have no enthusiasm for him. It he does object to the Electoral ballots, because Trump is the “real winner”, moderate Republicans and Independents will be mad at him for attempting a coup.

But, if he objects to the Electoral College slates, not on the basis that “Trump really won” but on the basis of “highlighting alleged irregularities” in the Election, the Trump fanatics will be grateful to him and the moderates won’t be mad at him.

Well, not all moderates. I will never vote for Josh Hawley for any office. I won’t tolerate any kind of support for Trump’s steal the election effort. Nice try Josh.

[Joe Elliott]

Interesting article from NPR:

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/30/951095644/even-if-its-bonkers-poll-finds-many-believe-qanon-and-other-conspiracy-theories

Even If It's 'Bonkers,' Poll Finds Many Believe QAnon And Other Conspiracy Theories

December 30, 20205:00 AM ET

A significant number of Americans believe misinformation about the origins of the coronavirus and the recent presidential election, as well as conspiracy theories like QAnon, according to a new NPR/Ipsos poll.

Forty percent of respondents said they believe the coronavirus was made in a lab in China even though there is no evidence for this. Scientists say the virus was transmitted to humans from another species.

And one-third of Americans believe that voter fraud helped Joe Biden win the 2020 election, despite the fact that courts, election officials and the Justice Department have found no evidence of widespread fraud that could have changed the outcome.

The poll results add to mounting evidence that misinformation is gaining a foothold in American society and that conspiracy theories are going mainstream, especially during the coronavirus pandemic. This has raised concerns about how to get people to believe in a "baseline reality," said Chris Jackson, a pollster with Ipsos.

"Increasingly, people are willing to say and believe stuff that fits in with their view of how the world should be, even if it doesn't have any basis in reality or fact," Jackson said.

"What this poll really illustrates to me is how willing people are to believe things that are ludicrous because it fits in with a worldview that they want to believe."

Large portions of the American public just can’t reason things out very well.