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Author Topic: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2  (Read 465862 times)

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #1336 on: August 11, 2020, 07:38:29 AM »
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You don't need to get mad. The name-calling continues. You have a lot of anger to deal with. So so sad!

Why do you think I am mad? A moment mad is a moment truly wasted.
Besides, I could never get mad at somebody with a mental disability.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 08:22:34 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #1336 on: August 11, 2020, 07:38:29 AM »


Offline Paul May

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #1337 on: August 11, 2020, 02:08:13 PM »


U.S. Intelligence Says Republicans Are Working With Russia to Reelect Trump
By Jonathan Chait

Two weeks ago, William Evanina, director of the United States National Counterintelligence and Security Center, published a somewhat vague warning about various forms of foreign interference in the upcoming election. On Friday, he followed up with a more direct and incriminating one, specifically warning that Russia is working to help reelect Donald Trump. Even more important is what this warning unmistakably implies: that Trump and his Republican allies in Congress are actively cooperating with Russia’s campaign.

Trump obviously tends to respond with rage at the suggestion that Russia wants him to win, let alone that he is accepting the assistance. So Evanina’s summary delicately surrounds the revelations about Trump and Moscow with superficially balancing material. The report highlights three countries that want to influence the election: Russia, China, and Iran. The report notes that the latter two want Trump to lose, while Russia wants him to win.


This seems intended to let Republicans claim that there is foreign interference on both sides. And it’s true, as far as it goes.

But the comparisons end there. What is China doing to defeat Trump? Its government has “grown increasingly critical of the current Administration’s COVID-19 response, closure of China’s Houston Consulate, and actions on other issues.” And Iran’s efforts “probably will focus on on-line influence, such as spreading disinformation on social media and recirculating anti-U.S. content.”

In others words, Iran and China are undermining Trump by criticizing him in public remarks, possibly including some mean tweets.

Russia’s efforts to help Trump include all that. In addition, the statement notes, “pro-Russia Ukrainian parliamentarian Andriy Derkach is spreading claims about corruption — including through publicizing leaked phone calls — to undermine former Vice President Biden’s candidacy and the Democratic Party.”

Derkach and his Russian allies despise Biden, who spearheaded the administration’s efforts to reform Ukraine, rein in its oligarchs, and diminish Russian influence. They have attempted to depict Biden’s reform efforts as a corrupt plot to enrich his son Hunter.

Derkach has been working openly with Trump’s lawyer, Rudy Giuliani. None of this is a secret. Here are the two of them meeting in Kiev in December:


Giuliani told the Washington Post earlier this summer that Derkach “doesn’t seem pro-Russian to me.” In case that ruse was fooling anybody, U.S. intelligence has now officially described Derkach as an organ of Russian political interference.

Meanwhile, Senate Republicans on the Homeland Security Committee are holding hearings in an attempt to substantiate this charge — or, more realistically, to insinuate it. They have produced no evidence to advance their charge. The Russians have given Republicans stolen tapes of secret conversations Biden held with Ukrainians during his tenure as vice-president, and pro-Trump media outlets have hyped up the material, but nothing they have is inconsistent with the narrative that mainstream news organizations found. Biden was working to clean up Ukraine.


Senate Republicans tried to be cagey about their activities. After pro-Russian Ukrainians said they’d passed materials on to Republican officials, a Johnson staffer told NBC News in July that it was “‘false’ the committee has received any ‘oppo,’ or opposition research, without responding directly to whether that covers any materials from foreign sources.”

The Washington Post reported that Homeland Security Committee chairman Ron Johnson received secret documents from Ukrainians. And former Giuliani associate Lev Parnas has confessed to putting Devin Nunes, the top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee and perhaps Trump’s most energetic defender on all things Russia, in touch with one of the Ukrainians releasing documents in the United States.

There is hardly any secret to what they’re up to. Johnson says he plans to release his report on Biden in September. It hardly matters if the information Russia gives him actually substantiates his allegations, or even whether it is authentic. The obvious plan is to splash some headlines into news screens in the heat of the campaign that seem to connect Biden to some kind of wrongdoing.


In reality, it is not a scandal about Biden at all. It’s a scandal about Republican cooperation with a Russian propaganda campaign.

What makes Evanina’s statement on Friday so significant is that it makes clear that the passing of information, real or otherwise, from various Ukrainian figures to various Trump allies is part of a Russian-directed scheme to help Trump win. Republicans could tell Russia that Russian-controlled media are free to say anything they want, but Republicans aren’t going to launder their propaganda for them. Instead, they are doing everything in their power to exploit it.

Update: The unanswered question of why Evanina followed his first, vague statement with a second, more specific one has an answer. On SaPersonay morning, the New York Times Magazine published a long, devastating story by Robert Draper about Trump’s politicization of intelligence. Draper’s reporting forced Friday night’s release, which directly acknowledged Russia’s active preference to help Trump win.

Draper’s story also helps contextualize the essentially decorative mentions of China and Iran. Intelligence officials are terrified of enraging Trump by confirming that Russia wants him to win, even though the conclusion is obvious. If you want to understand why officials added references to China and Iran to create the illusion of balance — even though those two countries don’t seem to be taking any steps to help Biden, and Biden certainly isn’t cooperating with them — Draper’s narrative explains the intense pressure they’re facing
« Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 08:42:15 PM by Paul May »

Offline Paul May

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #1338 on: August 11, 2020, 05:48:19 PM »
Loser’: A leading psychiatrist takes a detailed look into Trump’s narcissistic pathologies

Bandy X. Lee, DC

Mary Trump’s book, Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created the World’s Most Dangerous Man, is an extraordinary account from the perspective of a family member of the president who happens to have the rare insight of a clinical psychologist.  Her conclusions complement and confirm those of thousands of mental health experts who have also come forth about a U.S. president in historically unprecedented ways.  Dr. John Zinner, one of those psychiatrists, is also a leading psychoanalyst and clinical professor at the George Washington University School of Medicine, who previously served in the U.S. Public Health Service and as the former head of the Unit on Family Therapy Studies at the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH).

For this, Part 4 of our series, “Inside the Mind of Donald J. Trump,” Zinner was interviewed by Bandy X. Lee, a Yale forensic psychiatrist and a frequent contributor to DCReport. She is the editor of The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 37 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess a President.

Lee: You researched and published about severe narcissistic disorders at the NIMH and identified these traits in the president from the start.  What are their most important features, and which descriptions did you find most salient in Dr. Mary Trump’s accounts?

Zinner: At the present time, we in the United States are experiencing an unspeakable tragedy.  More than 165,000 of us have died in the past six months, countless numbers of us are or have been ill, tens of millions are unemployed, millions are in danger of becoming homeless.  We are being struck by a “perfect storm,” a combination of a deadly pandemic combined with an utter failure in leadership by the very person who should have been in charge of preventing this terrible national emergency.  Donald Trump has failed us because he is, as he has always been, incompetent, and he suffers from extremely severe mental disorders, which render him incapable of attending to any issue beyond his own personal need for adulation.

The mental condition he suffers most from is formally known as a severe instance of “narcissistic personality disorder,” which is well established in the psychiatric literature.  The core problem in this disorder is the failure in childhood and beyond to develop an inner sense of worth or self-esteem.  This makes one’s worth entirely dependent upon admiration from others.  This dependency likely derives from his parents’ valuing the child, Donald, only to the extent that he met their needs, rather than their recognizing his uniqueness, and their being sensitive and responding to his needs for consistent comfort and nurturing.

Trump feels, deep down like a ‘loser,’ ‘failure,’ ‘weak,’ ‘dumb,’ ‘fat,’ ‘ugly,’ ‘fake,’ and ‘crooked.’  These self-denigrating pictures of himself, Trump projects onto others whom he transforms into enemies.

As Mary Trump notes, Donald’s father, “Fred was and always had been the ultimate arbiter of his children’s worth.”  Donald’s mother, Mary, was, in the author’s view, “the kind of mother who used her children to comfort herself rather than comforting them.”  Compounding this parental failing was Mary’s extended absence beginning when Donald was about two and one half, because of illness and her persistent emotional unavailability beyond that.  This left Donald in the care of a harsh and non-nurturing father.

As a result of his total dependence upon external affirmation, Donald Trump feels, deep down like a “loser,” failure,” weak,” dumb,” “fat,” “ugly,” “fake,” and “crooked.”  These self-denigrating pictures of himself, Trump projects onto others whom he transforms into enemies.  Nevertheless, these traits are his own subconscious views of himself, for which he compensates consciously by creating a grandiose image of himself as unique, a “stable genius,” entitled to special treatment and better at everything than anyone else.

You have commented before that we know a remarkable amount about Donald Trump and that you reject the so-called “Goldwater rule,” which has been used to prohibit not only diagnosis but any commentary on a public figure since this presidency.  Can you explain your position?

It is not a rule.  It is really a principle or a standard, which is very different, because the preamble of the code of ethics of the American Psychiatric Association that establishes the basic guidelines for the ethical canons says that a psychiatrist’s responsibility, “first and foremost,”  is to his or her patients and to society and to his colleagues and himself, in that order.  It does not include a public figure.

Do you agree with Dr. Trump that Donald Trump is “the world’s most dangerous man”?  What could be coming?  What are the possibilities we need to be aware of in the coming months?

What makes Donald Trump so dangerous is the brittleness of his sense of worth.  Any slight or criticism is experienced as humiliation and degradation.  To cope with the resultant hollow and empty feelings, he reacts with what is referred to as narcissistic rage.  He is unable to take responsibility for any error, mistake or failing.  His default in that situation is to blame others and to attack the perceived source of his humiliation.

These attacks of narcissistic rage can be brutal and destructive, for reasons that are also part of his disturbance.  Especially, these include an extreme lack of empathy, compassion, authentic guilt, remorse, or, fundamentally, caring about the other person(s).  Donald Trump genuinely cares for no one but himself.  He lacks the capacity to feel regret or to avoid the harm he can cause to others.  He can derive a sadistic pleasure for the hurt he may create.

What makes Donald Trump so dangerous is the brittleness of his sense of worth…  To cope with the resultant hollow and empty feelings, he reacts with what is referred to as narcissistic rage.

These dangerous qualities should not be underestimated.   Donald Trump will stop at nothing to secure the adulation he yearns for by fulfilling his grandiose, often delusional, images of himself.  He has and is willing to allow the death of countless citizens by COVID-19, rather than admit he has failed to respond and that the scientists, whom he denigrates, knew all along what works best in dealing with the pandemic.

At this point, expect that Donald Trump will do everything he can do to disrupt the coming election so that he would not have to experience what he fears most, that is defeat, to be a “loser.” One of his current tactics is to disable the postal service so that mail-in balloting will be rendered ineffective.

He is currently spending his days watching television and “tweeting,” as another way of venting his rage.  Thus, he is both nonfunctioning as well as dysfunctional.  The government seems to be presently run by his aides, standing in for the president.  Such seems the case in it being Vice President Pence withdrawing federal agents from the streets of Portland.

You were among the first to alert about the magnitude of his dangers by writing a letter to the military.  Do you still believe they have a role?

The only definitive way of dealing with the dangers he poses to us seems to be to vote Trump out of office.  Meanwhile, we do the best we can in working for his and his enablers’ defeat as well as protecting ourselves from the consequences.  We must support the public health initiatives our scientists insist upon, and work in our communities to ensure that these health initiatives are carried out.



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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #1338 on: August 11, 2020, 05:48:19 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #1339 on: August 11, 2020, 06:26:57 PM »
THE NATIONAL INTEREST UPDATED ON AUG. 8, 2020

U.S. Intelligence Says Republicans Are Working With Russia to Reelect Trump
By Jonathan Chait

Two weeks ago, William Evanina, director of the United States National Counterintelligence and Security Center, published a somewhat vague warning about various forms of foreign interference in the upcoming election. On Friday, he followed up with a more direct and incriminating one, specifically warning that Russia is working to help reelect Donald Trump. Even more important is what this warning unmistakably implies: that Trump and his Republican allies in Congress are actively cooperating with Russia’s campaign.

Trump obviously tends to respond with rage at the suggestion that Russia wants him to win, let alone that he is accepting the assistance. So Evanina’s summary delicately surrounds the revelations about Trump and Moscow with superficially balancing material. The report highlights three countries that want to influence the election: Russia, China, and Iran. The report notes that the latter two want Trump to lose, while Russia wants him to win.


This seems intended to let Republicans claim that there is foreign interference on both sides. And it’s true, as far as it goes.

But the comparisons end there. What is China doing to defeat Trump? Its government has “grown increasingly critical of the current Administration’s COVID-19 response, closure of China’s Houston Consulate, and actions on other issues.” And Iran’s efforts “probably will focus on on-line influence, such as spreading disinformation on social media and recirculating anti-U.S. content.”

In others words, Iran and China are undermining Trump by criticizing him in public remarks, possibly including some mean tweets.

Russia’s efforts to help Trump include all that. In addition, the statement notes, “pro-Russia Ukrainian parliamentarian Andriy Derkach is spreading claims about corruption — including through publicizing leaked phone calls — to undermine former Vice President Biden’s candidacy and the Democratic Party.”

Derkach and his Russian allies despise Biden, who spearheaded the administration’s efforts to reform Ukraine, rein in its oligarchs, and diminish Russian influence. They have attempted to depict Biden’s reform efforts as a corrupt plot to enrich his son Hunter.

Derkach has been working openly with Trump’s lawyer, Rudy Giuliani. None of this is a secret. Here are the two of them meeting in Kiev in December:


Giuliani told the Washington Post earlier this summer that Derkach “doesn’t seem pro-Russian to me.” In case that ruse was fooling anybody, U.S. intelligence has now officially described Derkach as an organ of Russian political interference.

Meanwhile, Senate Republicans on the Homeland Security Committee are holding hearings in an attempt to substantiate this charge — or, more realistically, to insinuate it. They have produced no evidence to advance their charge. The Russians have given Republicans stolen tapes of secret conversations Biden held with Ukrainians during his tenure as vice-president, and pro-Trump media outlets have hyped up the material, but nothing they have is inconsistent with the narrative that mainstream news organizations found. Biden was working to clean up Ukraine.


Senate Republicans tried to be cagey about their activities. After pro-Russian Ukrainians said they’d passed materials on to Republican officials, a Johnson staffer told NBC News in July that it was “‘false’ the committee has received any ‘oppo,’ or opposition research, without responding directly to whether that covers any materials from foreign sources.”

The Washington Post reported that Homeland Security Committee chairman Ron Johnson received secret documents from Ukrainians. And former Giuliani associate Lev Parnas has confessed to putting Devin Nunes, the top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee and perhaps Trump’s most energetic defender on all things Russia, in touch with one of the Ukrainians releasing documents in the United States.

There is hardly any secret to what they’re up to. Johnson says he plans to release his report on Biden in September. It hardly matters if the information Russia gives him actually substantiates his allegations, or even whether it is authentic. The obvious plan is to splash some headlines into news screens in the heat of the campaign that seem to connect Biden to some kind of wrongdoing.


In reality, it is not a scandal about Biden at all. It’s a scandal about Republican cooperation with a Russian propaganda campaign.

What makes Evanina’s statement on Friday so significant is that it makes clear that the passing of information, real or otherwise, from various Ukrainian figures to various Trump allies is part of a Russian-directed scheme to help Trump win. Republicans could tell Russia that Russian-controlled media are free to say anything they want, but Republicans aren’t going to launder their propaganda for them. Instead, they are doing everything in their power to exploit it.

Update: The unanswered question of why Evanina followed his first, vague statement with a second, more specific one has an answer. On SaPersonay morning, the New York Times Magazine published a long, devastating story by Robert Draper about Trump’s politicization of intelligence. Draper’s reporting forced Friday night’s release, which directly acknowledged Russia’s active preference to help Trump win.

Draper’s story also helps contextualize the essentially decorative mentions of China and Iran. Intelligence officials are terrified of enraging Trump by confirming that Russia wants him to win, even though the conclusion is obvious. If you want to understand why officials added references to China and Iran to create the illusion of balance — even though those two countries don’t seem to be taking any steps to help Biden, and Biden certainly isn’t cooperating with them — Draper’s narrative explains the intense pressure they’re facing

This nonsense again?  And from the same guy who constantly derides Trump and many other as a "conspiracy theorist"!  The idea that Trump or any republicans have worked with the Russians has already been debunked once.  It is perhaps the Granddaddy of all conspiracy theories to suggest the President of the United States is conspiring with Russia.  You of all people should be ashamed to peddle a baseless conspiracy theory.  At least refrain from disparaging others including Trump as a "conspiracy theorist" if you are going to promote this kind of outlandish conspiracy.  This is just an attempt to undermine Trump when he wins the elections (i.e. nefarious Ruskies were behind his election).  It's laughable.

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #1340 on: August 11, 2020, 06:35:32 PM »
The economic recovery is truly a miracle that even the most hate filled dems should be celebrating.  The stock market is not just surging but roaring.  Setting records despite an historic pandemic that closed the entire country for months.  It borders on the miraculous.  Of course, the same hate filled dems who cited the market fall as evidence of Trump's failure will now dismiss it.  While certainly not everyone benefits directly from the stock market it is a reflection of larger economic health.  And that means things are recovering at a fantastic pace.  Once the Trump vaccine is on the market, the sky is the limit.  But keep hoping for more deaths and economic suffering.  Things are looking great in those places that have been controlled for decades by dems.  Can't wait until the entire country looks like Chicago, Portland, Baltimore, and NYC.  Smoldering ruins.  And those places are at least governed by dems that are not plagued with dementia.  Octogenarian Joe doesn't have a clue. 

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #1340 on: August 11, 2020, 06:35:32 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #1341 on: August 11, 2020, 06:59:22 PM »
The economic recovery is truly a miracle that even the most hate filled dems should be celebrating.  The stock market is not just surging but roaring.  Setting records despite an historic pandemic that closed the entire country for months.  It borders on the miraculous.  Of course, the same hate filled dems who cited the market fall as evidence of Trump's failure will now dismiss it.  While certainly not everyone benefits directly from the stock market it is a reflection of larger economic health.  And that means things are recovering at a fantastic pace.  Once the Trump vaccine is on the market, the sky is the limit.  But keep hoping for more deaths and economic suffering.  Things are looking great in those places that have been controlled for decades by dems.  Can't wait until the entire country looks like Chicago, Portland, Baltimore, and NYC.  Smoldering ruins.  And those places are at least governed by dems that are not plagued with dementia.  Octogenarian Joe doesn't have a clue.

It must be fun living in your world, where the words "reality" and "realism" can only be found in a rarely used dictionary.

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #1342 on: August 11, 2020, 07:37:14 PM »
The economic recovery is truly a miracle that even the most hate filled dems should be celebrating.  The stock market is not just surging but roaring.  Setting records despite an historic pandemic that closed the entire country for months.  It borders on the miraculous.  Of course, the same hate filled dems who cited the market fall as evidence of Trump's failure will now dismiss it.  While certainly not everyone benefits directly from the stock market it is a reflection of larger economic health.  And that means things are recovering at a fantastic pace.  Once the Trump vaccine is on the market, the sky is the limit.  But keep hoping for more deaths and economic suffering.  Things are looking great in those places that have been controlled for decades by dems.  Can't wait until the entire country looks like Chicago, Portland, Baltimore, and NYC.  Smoldering ruins.  And those places are at least governed by dems that are not plagued with dementia.  Octogenarian Joe doesn't have a clue.
165,000 dead.
No accountability.

Offline Paul May

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #1343 on: August 11, 2020, 09:00:54 PM »
This nonsense again?  And from the same guy who constantly derides Trump and many other as a "conspiracy theorist"!  The idea that Trump or any republicans have worked with the Russians has already been debunked once.  It is perhaps the Granddaddy of all conspiracy theories to suggest the President of the United States is conspiring with Russia.  You of all people should be ashamed to peddle a baseless conspiracy theory.  At least refrain from disparaging others including Trump as a "conspiracy theorist" if you are going to promote this kind of outlandish conspiracy.  This is just an attempt to undermine Trump when he wins the elections (i.e. nefarious Ruskies were behind his election).  It's laughable.

Baseless? You jest. Trump’s killed 160,000 Americans. That also a conspiracy theory? Putin owns Trump. Trump owns you. You drank the kool-Aid.  Who’s the idiot?

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #1343 on: August 11, 2020, 09:00:54 PM »