Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: Three Problems with the Lone-Gunman Theory  (Read 14535 times)

Online Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3117
Re: Three Problems with the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2021, 03:52:00 PM »
Advertisement
I'm sorry, I mistakenly believed you had a genuine interest in the case, but au contraire you have embraced the US Government's version of events. I hope one day you will wake up and realize not everything the government tells you is true.

I have a genuine interest in trying to understand the evidence to the best of my ability.
The Z-film shows both men reacting simultaneously in a very extreme manner.
If they are reacting to a being shot then they were both shot at the same time.
It's really obvious.
You choose not to see it.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Three Problems with the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2021, 03:52:00 PM »


Offline Joffrey van de Wiel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
Re: Three Problems with the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2021, 04:20:37 PM »
I have a genuine interest in trying to understand the evidence to the best of my ability.
The Z-film shows both men reacting simultaneously in a very extreme manner.
If they are reacting to a being shot then they were both shot at the same time.
It's really obvious.
You choose not to see it.

I am sorry I was a bit snappy, didn't mean to  :(

From memory: the Governor stated that he was hit around Z-234 to Z-237. He has further stated that he heard the first shot, had time to think and time to turn, and was in the process of turning back when he was hit in the back. His wife said that after she heard the first shot, she looked at the President and she observed he had his hands at his throat. Then the second shot came in and it hit the Governor, who was pushed to the right front.

Surely the Governor and his wife weren't fools who couldn't count. We can't just ignore the testimony of the guy WHO WAS ACTUALLY SHOT in favour of an interpretation of the Z-film. There are many interpretations. We are handicapped by the fact that the road sign blocked Zapruder's and our view, and we will never know what happened while the limousine and its occupants were behind it. From Zapruder's perspective that is.

So you have to consider two contradictory pieces of evidence: the witness testimony and the Z-film. You say I ignore the Z-film, but aren't you choosing to disregard the Governor's and his wife's sworn statements?

Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10814
Re: Three Problems with the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2021, 10:28:42 PM »
Thanks for pointing that out, Neil... explains why the little nobody missed Walker and the first shot at the someday in the limo. You know, just getting the kinks out..

Like you actually know that there was a first shot that missed or that Oswald fired it.  Even an actual parrot is more discerning.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Three Problems with the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2021, 10:28:42 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10814
Re: Three Problems with the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2021, 10:29:40 PM »
In addition, the clock starts at the first shot so whatever these brainiacs claim as total time elapsed, the nobody needs only coax/massage the bolt action back & forth a couple of times during any given time frame.

Like you know when the first shot occurred, Polly.

Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10814
Re: Three Problems with the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2021, 10:31:02 PM »
Additionally, a cadaver a few feet away (adjusted powder-load notwithstanding) just ain't the same as firing from the exact same Oswaldian angle & distance.

Like you know what CE399 was fired at and from how far away, Polly.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Three Problems with the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2021, 10:31:02 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10814
Re: Three Problems with the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2021, 10:34:18 PM »
Surely the Governor and his wife weren't fools who couldn't count. We can't just ignore the testimony of the guy WHO WAS ACTUALLY SHOT in favour of an interpretation of the Z-film.

 Thumb1:

But Mr. Rorschach, why do you have so many pictures of my parents fighting?

Online Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3117
Re: Three Problems with the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2021, 11:20:24 PM »
I am sorry I was a bit snappy, didn't mean to  :(

From memory: the Governor stated that he was hit around Z-234 to Z-237. He has further stated that he heard the first shot, had time to think and time to turn, and was in the process of turning back when he was hit in the back. His wife said that after she heard the first shot, she looked at the President and she observed he had his hands at his throat. Then the second shot came in and it hit the Governor, who was pushed to the right front.

Surely the Governor and his wife weren't fools who couldn't count. We can't just ignore the testimony of the guy WHO WAS ACTUALLY SHOT in favour of an interpretation of the Z-film. There are many interpretations. We are handicapped by the fact that the road sign blocked Zapruder's and our view, and we will never know what happened while the limousine and its occupants were behind it. From Zapruder's perspective that is.

So you have to consider two contradictory pieces of evidence: the witness testimony and the Z-film. You say I ignore the Z-film, but aren't you choosing to disregard the Governor's and his wife's sworn statements?

"We can't just ignore the testimony of the guy WHO WAS ACTUALLY SHOT in favour of an interpretation of the Z-film"

Agreed, JBC's testimony can't be ignored but if his testimony contains things that aren't in the Z-film you must surely agree that, in terms of evidence, the Z-film takes precedence.
Another point to make, that is rarely taken into account when examining JBC's testimony, is that he is recalling an event so traumatic that he didn't even know his wrist was shattered at the time. It was a life-and-death moment and it has been well documented that traumatic events can distort the memory:

"Observers commonly report that time seems to have moved in slow motion during a life-threatening event."

"Our findings suggest that time-slowing is a function of recollection, not perception: a richer encoding of memory may cause a salient event to appear, retrospectively, as though it lasted longer."

"Temporal judgments – such as duration, order, and simultaneity – are subject to distortions."


"Does Time Really Slow Down during a Frightening Event?"  [Chess Stetson,Matthew P. Fiesta,David M. Eagleman. Published: December 12, 2007https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0001295]:


I believe such distortions are present in JBC's recollection of events surrounding the shooting.
For instance, JBC testifies that after hearing the first shot he turned to look over his right shoulder to see the President. There is only one moment when JBC turns to look over his right shoulder in the Z-film and that is after he is shot.

He has described the time interval between hearing the first shot and being hit as a "split second". It is also worth noting that he clearly hears the first shot and immediately recognises it as a rifle shot yet he doesn't hear the shot that hits him (a split second later)
He chooses z231-234 as the moment he is shot. I would argue this is the moment he is aware of being shot. This may seem like splitting hairs but there is a time-lag between a stimulus and the conscious awareness of that stimulus:

"Human thought takes time to form, and so the “right now” that we’re experiencing inside our skulls is always a little later than what’s going on in the outside world. It takes 500 milliseconds, or half a second, for sensory information from the outside world to be incorporated into conscious experience."

[https://nymag.com/speed/2016/12/what-is-the-speed-of-thought.html#:~:text=Human%20thought%20takes%20time%20to,be%20incorporated%20into%20conscious%20experience.]

500 milliseconds is roughly 9 z-frames meaning the shot actually struck JBC in the range of z222-225. This is the exact moment of the Z-film JFK and JBC begin simultaneous and extreme physical movements indicative of a reflex reaction to a severe external stimulus (ie: being shot)

« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 11:23:35 PM by Dan O'meara »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Three Problems with the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2021, 11:20:24 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6513
Re: Three Problems with the Lone-Gunman Theory
« Reply #71 on: April 01, 2021, 11:10:18 AM »
Like you actually know that there was a first shot that missed or that Oswald fired it.  Even an actual parrot is more discerning.

I don't need to know; actual attendees (at any given scene) saw/said, despite you attempting to tell us what they saw or said.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 11:11:41 AM by Bill Chapman »