Power cut important clarification required

[Royell Storing]

Of course the TSBD would not want to pay the Hertz electric bill.  But that adds absolutely no support to your implication that the sign had an independent power source.  Talk about an assumption. Hertz could have contracted to pay the TSBD owner whatever the estimated monthly electrical cost of the sign.  Look this is easy.  Whether the sign had an independent link to power or received its power via the same source as the TSBD, the power to both would have gone off if there was an external power outage to that location.  I believe that is exactly what Tom concluded. Like the power going off to a city block.  Can you compute that fact? 

Now if we are narrowing things down to someone pulling a circuit switch inside the building, then of course it would be possible to cut the power to specific parts of the building without turning the sign off.  In that situation, we are left to look to the specific facts to reach a conclusion.  For example, if the claim is that the power was cut to specific elevators, we have multiple examples of those same elevators being in operation in the same time frame.  Baker and Truly take the freight elevator.  A freight elevator comes down to the first floor because we know Mooney takes it from the first floor to the second floor etc.  Once the freight elevator reaches the second floor and those who work in the building get out, Mooney can no longer operate it.  He attributes this to a power outage but it is just as plausible that he simply can't figure out the quirks of this elevator once those who work in the building exit.  It is not a normal passenger elevator that entails just pushing a button.  It is an old freight elevator in a warehouse.  But the outage premise becomes even more absurd if attributed to some type of planned conspiracy event which must entail a conspirator hanging around in the TSBD long after the DPD have entered the building search for the assassin.  This person would be manipulating the internal circuit boxes at great risk for no apparent reason instead of doing the logical thing and making tracks.  It just doesn't add up as part of a conspiracy narrative.  If you are not alleging the power outage was part of any planned conspiracy, then it doesn't matter much whether it happened or not.  If you want to entertain this as a random outage that had no direct connection to the assassination, then it is unimportant except as a matter of historical curiosity.

So let's Clarify this. Are YOU claiming that the Power Line which provided electricity to the TSBD Building was the Same Power Line which provided Massive amounts of electricity to the Hertz Sign???

[Tim Nickerson]

implying that Mooney never before had operated an old freight which in this case actually was a push button thing.

I doesn't get much better to illustrate how a the delusional mind of a fanatic works.

Thanks for illustrating how the delusional mind of a fanatic works.

[Richard Smith]

Quote from: Richard Smith on Today at 02:54:54 PM
Mooney can no longer operate it.  He attributes this to a power outage but it is just as plausible that he simply can't figure out the quirks of this elevator once those who work in the building exit.

Continued unsupported claim from a Warren fanboy now supported by another unsupported claim:

It is not a normal passenger elevator that entails just pushing a button.  It is an old freight elevator in a warehouse.

implying that Mooney never before had operated an old freight which in this case actually was a push button thing.

I doesn't get much better to illustrate how a the delusional mind of a fanatic works.

You would be an expert on delusional minds given your theory in this instance.  We have reached the point of impasse.  You have provided all manner of unsupported, outlandish fantasies involving the elevator and Mooney.  But you refuse to acknowledge the most obvious.  That he simply didn't know how to work an old freight elevator that did require more than just pushing a button.  The elevator was working just fine from the first to second floor.  Magic elves did not power it.  But suddenly when the people who work in the building get off Mooney can't get it to operate. 

btw:  you have never specified a time frame for Mooney's elevator ride.  What time do you think it took place?  That would seemingly be an important factor if the outage was the result of some intentional action by the fantasy conspirators.  Why turn the power off at that moment?  At the very least it takes place well after the alleged Hine power outage which she reports as happening as the motorcade passed.  Given that we know the power was on to this elevator after the motorcade because it makes its way to the first floor and then to the second, that means you must be suggesting the power was off (or Hine was incorrect), then on so the elevator could function, and then back off to cause Mooney's issue.   Busy conspirators and for no apparent reason. 

[Ray Mitcham]

What is difficult about operating a "push button elevator". It's not as if it needed an operator to ensure that it worked.

A clue is in it was a Push button operated.

[Tim Nickerson]

What is difficult about operating a "push button elevator". It's not as if it needed an operator to ensure that it worked.

A clue is in it was a Push button operated.

Ray, you didn't just step onto the elevator and push a button.

[Richard Smith]

What is difficult about operating a "push button elevator". It's not as if it needed an operator to ensure that it worked.

A clue is in it was a Push button operated.

LOL.  Like I said, Mooney would have said something similar because he didn't know what he didn't know.  There are two passengers on Mooney's elevator who work in the building and know how that elevator works.  They get off at the 2nd floor.  Mooney then can't get the elevator moving.  Think about how they get off that elevator and what is necessary for Mooney to do properly to get it moving again other than just pushing a button.  Can I prove it to Tom's subjective satisfaction?  Of course not.  Particularly when he keeps changing his story or refusing to clarify what it is he is suggesting happened but it is plausible that Mooney simply couldn't figure out how to operate that freight elevator once his passengers get off.  And again, if someone wants to suggest there was a power outage but it was just some coincidence and not part of any planned conspiracy, that is fine with me even if false.  It would just be a matter of historical curiosity and have no relevance to proving a conspiracy.   Thus, not a particularly meaningful event.  The totality of evidence suggests there was no power outage.  The Hine testimony relates to the lights on her phone.  There are numerous examples in the same time frame of the elevators functioning.  If there were any outage, it was of short duration and after Oswald had left the building suggesting it was not part of any designed plan as some CTers imply.   There is no plausible conspiracy narrative for turning the power off briefly to this elevator which entailed the significant risk of hanging around in the building after the DPD is searching it.

[Ray Mitcham]

LOL.  Like I said, Mooney would have said something similar because he didn't know what he didn't know.  There are two passengers on Mooney's elevator who work in the building and know how that elevator works.  They get off at the 2nd floor.  Mooney then can't get the elevator moving.  Think about how they get off that elevator and what is necessary for Mooney to do properly to get it moving again other than just pushing a button.  Can I prove it to Tom's subjective satisfaction?  Of course not.  Particularly when he keeps changing his story or refusing to clarify what it is he is suggesting happened but it is plausible that Mooney simply couldn't figure out how to operate that freight elevator once his passengers get off.  And again, if someone wants to suggest there was a power outage but it was just some coincidence and not part of any planned conspiracy, that is fine with me even if false.  It would just be a matter of historical curiosity and have no relevance to proving a conspiracy.   Thus, not a particularly meaningful event.  The totality of evidence suggests there was no power outage.  The Hine testimony relates to the lights on her phone.  There are numerous examples in the same time frame of the elevators functioning.  If there were any outage, it was of short duration and after Oswald had left the building suggesting it was not part of any designed plan as some CTers imply.   There is no plausible conspiracy narrative for turning the power off briefly to this elevator which entailed the significant risk of hanging around in the building after the DPD is searching it.

You would have to be a particularly  stupid cop not to be able to operate a push button elevator.

[John Iacoletti]

Of course the TSBD would not want to pay the Hertz electric bill.  But that adds absolutely no support to your implication that the sign had an independent power source.  Talk about an assumption. Hertz could have contracted to pay the TSBD owner whatever the estimated monthly electrical cost of the sign.  Look this is easy.

Sure, now you just have to come up with some evidence for that.  Do you have any?

Whether the sign had an independent link to power or received its power via the same source as the TSBD, the power to both would have gone off if there was an external power outage to that location.  I believe that is exactly what Tom concluded. Like the power going off to a city block.  Can you compute that fact? 

Who in the world do you think claimed there was an external power outage to that location, like the power going off to a city block?

Now if we are narrowing things down to someone pulling a circuit switch inside the building, then of course it would be possible to cut the power to specific parts of the building without turning the sign off.

Thank you.  Was that so hard?

  In that situation, we are left to look to the specific facts to reach a conclusion.  For example, if the claim is that the power was cut to specific elevators, we have multiple examples of those same elevators being in operation in the same time frame.

Only if you concoct a "time frame" that encompasses whatever non-specific times somebody claimed to have used an elevator.  I'm not sure how that demonstrates that the power was on when Mooney and Adams tried to use them.  That doesn't fit in with your world view so you're just making unsubstantiated excuses to disregard it.  Which is what you do with all conflicting evidence in this case.  What's new?