The First Shot

[Andrew Mason]

And the photo you provided was taken from directly behind. Take one from the same angle as the bullet would have to be if fired at Z190-Z200 (I estimate it to be about 18 to 19-degrees) and see if the left thigh is visible to the camera. (And just how comfortable that position would be to hold.)

This is taken from about .6 m (2 feet) behind the right top corner of the jump seat, with the shoulders turned in the position JBC is seen in z190-200.  JFK's throat exit wound was not as far right as this but the left thigh is visible from even that far right.  The key is the right turn of the shoulders that JBC had assumed.

The angle at Z195 to the SN was 15.1 degrees as I measure it:

and would be less at z200.

[Charles Collins]

This is taken from about .6 m (2 feet) behind the right top corner of the jump seat, with the shoulders turned in the position JBC is seen in z190-200.  JFK's throat exit wound was not as far right as this but the left thigh is visible from even that far right.  The key is the right turn of the shoulders that JBC had assumed.

The angle at Z195 to the SN was 15.1 degrees as I measure it:

and would be less at z200.

What elevation was the camera in relation to the left shoulder? It appears to me to be about level with it.

[Andrew Mason]

here's an attempt to model a shot through Kennedy in the Z190s (Note: this is not a SBT demonstration!).

You have JFK as far right as possible. It is possible he was not that close to the right side of the car. So you have to allow for a possible range of positions that are consistent with his position in z193.

In z193 his right upper arm is extended to the right.  His forearm covers most of his upper arm, which means that his elbow is right of his shoulder and not much forward.  The shoulder appears to be inside the car, which is consistent with the elbow extending out to the right onto the top of the car.   That would put his midline at least 10 inches from the edge of the car. 

A 15 degree path from the neck exit wound over the ensuing 24.5 inches goes 6.5 inches farther left, putting the bullet 16.5 inches from the right side of the car beside JFK. On the scale drawing of the limo CE872, the middle of the jump seat is located 15 inches from the inside of the right side panel.  This is consistent with the printed dimensions which show that the width of the back seat - the distance between the inside back seat panels - was 60 inches.  So, that would mean the bullet passed about 1.5 inches left of the middle of the jump seat.  With Connally turned as he was in z193, the bullet would have gone to the left of his spine even if his spine had been pressed against the seat back, which it wasn't.   With Gov. Connally's spine somewhat forward of the seat back and his shoulders turned right as we see in z193, I suggest that was enough to miss his turned back entirely. It may have grazed the back of his jacket as it was tumbling.

Mason has the entire torso, including the waist, turned. But the waist area would be more or less untwisted.

It passed above the waist.  The thigh wound was above the waist and the bullet was moving downward from JFK.

Mason needs that area out of the way so his bullet can get pass Connally and strike the thigh. He's also claiming fragment strikes to the "wall" in front of Connally and to the driver-side sun-visor. No such such damage (holes) was reported in those areas.

I am not "claiming" fragment strikes. We are dealing with CE399!  I suggest that CE399 stuck in JBC's left thigh but all we know is that it fell out of his thigh at some point because it was found on his stretcher.  So maybe it stayed in and fell out as he was placed onto the stretcher or removed from it.  Maybe it  struck the hard wood panel in front at a few feet per second and bounced back onto his lap.  We really don't know what it did.  But it was not a fragment and at slow speed there is no assurance that the bullet would make a mark. (As far as I know, the front panel was not tested for lead or copper residue).

There were fragment strikes to the windshield and windshield frame but these were not caused by CE399!

In my view, the best evidence is that this damage occurred on the second shot.  That fits what James Tague said (that there was a shot after he was struck) and Greer who reported hearing a kind of concussion on the second shot, which is consistent with the damage to the windshield and frame.  The best photos of the underside of the flipped-up left sunvisor were taken at Parkland before they put the roof on:

It is not a great photo of the detail on the surface but there are some unusual marks that are consistent with damage to the underside of the left visor.  I have been unable to verify that the sunvisors were inspected for damage.  It seems not outlandish to think that a spray of fragments that struck the windshield, frame and went over the windshield to strike the curb near James Tague also struck the visor.  However, that remains to be verified.

[Andrew Mason]

What elevation was the camera in relation to the left shoulder? It appears to me to be about level with it.

I could have done a better job of showing the setup details.  I did this several years ago.The camera was about 6 inches above the end of the meter stick. So the camera is above the shoulder.  Here is a side view of the setup.

[Charles Collins]

I could have done a better job of showing the setup details.  I did this several years ago.The camera was about 6 inches above the end of the meter stick. So the camera is above the shoulder.  Here is a side view of the setup.

It appears that this photo is a good illustration of my point about having to keep tension in order to stay in that twisted position. The hand on the lower leg appears to be helping to hold the pose.



By the way, I  believe that I might have been discussing this topic with you when you made the photos years ago. I found this photo in an old computer file:





 I don't remember which one of us combined the two photos. Back then we could use screen names, so mine was different than it is today.

[Andrew Mason]

It appears that this photo is a good illustration of my point about having to keep tension in order to stay in that twisted position. The hand on the lower leg appears to be helping to hold the pose.

As I recall it was necessary to hold the right leg to do that to keep the right knee from its natural tendency to move right as one turns to the right.  I wanted the right knee to point more or less forward and not to the side as JBC had the door on the right to keep the knee from moving farther right. It may have been easier to hold a right shoulder turn by pressing the right leg against the door. 

But I don't see how all this affects the position of the left knee.  It tends to move left when the torso turns right and there is no question that at z190-200 JBC has his shoulders turned right.

I don't remember which one of us combined the two photos. Back then we could use screen names, so mine was different than it is today.

The loss of the archived threads from years ago is unfortunate.

[Gerry Down]

Left of picture. I thought that was a woman bending over

Then released it was a lamp.

[Charles Collins]

Left of picture. I thought that was a woman bending over

Then released it was a lamp.

That lamp (and another one just like it) was made by my mother and given to me many years before, when I left home. I believe that I hadn’t yet completely gotten that room’s furniture arrangement worked out or set up at the time the photo was made. Hence the lamp on the floor.