The First Shot

[Dan O'meara]

The Gif below starts at z222 and finishes at z250.
At the start we can see JBC's cuff as discussed above. As the film rolls JBC's wrist is forced below the limo door frame then his arm suddenly springs up incredibly rapidly. From that moment on his hand is held at what appears to be a very unnatural angle (IMO), as if the wrist is no longer providing support for the hand. Consistent with the massive trauma to his wrist caused by the bullet.



I will return to this Gif as there are many other interesting aspects to it, JBC's 'jacket bulge' in particular.
Also of interest is JBC's WC testimony in which he states - "... immediately, when I was hit, I said, "Oh, no, no, no."
I believe this is shown in the Z-film.

[Andrew Mason]

In McCloy's (corrected: not McCone's) anecdote did the soldier have a gradual reaction then suddenly have an extreme and rapid physical reaction?

Yes. McCloy  (corrected: not McCone's)  was standing beside him when he was hit.  The soldier remained standing and said, "I think I've been shot". He then fell over and collapsed (corrected: not "died").

Please cite where the WC, HSCA, Bugliosi etc. describe a gradual reaction followed by a sudden, extreme and incredibly rapid reaction.

They all concluded that JFK could have been shot in the neck well before z223.  The WC said he was likely hit between z210 and z225 (WR 105). Bugliosi concluded he was hit "within a split-second of Z210" (Reclaiming History). The HSCA concluded he was hit at z190 (6 HSCA 43).

[Dan O'meara]

Yes. McCone was standing beside him when he was hit.  The soldier remained standing and said, "I think I've been shot". He then fell over and died.

This is not a gradual reaction followed by a sudden and rapid physical reaction. When I asked...
"In McCone's anecdote did the soldier have a gradual reaction then suddenly have an extreme and rapid physical reaction?"
...the answer is NO, this did not happen, instead of the contradictory nonsense you came up with.

They all concluded that JFK could have been shot in the neck well before z223.  The WC said he was likely hit between z210 and z225 (WR 105). Bugliosi concluded he was hit "within a split-second of Z210" (Reclaiming History). The HSCA concluded he was hit at z190 (6 HSCA 43).

So not one of them described a gradual reaction followed by a sudden, extreme and rapid reaction. When I asked you to...
"...cite where the WC, HSCA, Bugliosi etc. describe a gradual reaction followed by a sudden, extreme and incredibly rapid reaction."
...your answer should have been - I can't cite anything like that as there is no example of that anywhere.

Your proposed model of a gradual reaction followed by a sudden, extreme, and rapid physical reaction is utter nonsense but you won't admit it. In your defence of the nonsensical you end up talking nonsense.
Is it so hard to accept that the sudden, extreme and rapid physical reactions displayed by both JFK and JBC at exactly the same moment, are in response to a shot at z223?

[Andrew Mason]

This is not a gradual reaction followed by a sudden and rapid physical reaction. When I asked...
"In McCone's anecdote did the soldier have a gradual reaction then suddenly have an extreme and rapid physical reaction?"
...the answer is NO, this did not happen, instead of the contradictory nonsense you came up with.

Sorry, I meant McCloy, not McCone.  (3 HSCA 605): "Cutter turned to me at a certain point, sort of hesitated and said, 'Jack, I think I'm shot,' and in a little while, he collapsed."  (another correction; it appears he did not die, he just collapsed). 

Why can a person who has been shot in the neck not have a moment of hesitation before having a sudden reaction when he realizes that he cannot breathe?

So not one of them described a gradual reaction followed by a sudden, extreme and rapid reaction. When I asked you to...
"...cite where the WC, HSCA, Bugliosi etc. describe a gradual reaction followed by a sudden, extreme and incredibly rapid reaction."
...your answer should have been - I can't cite anything like that as there is no example of that anywhere.

Your proposed model of a gradual reaction followed by a sudden, extreme, and rapid physical reaction is utter nonsense but you won't admit it. In your defence of the nonsensical you end up talking nonsense.
Is it so hard to accept that the sudden, extreme and rapid physical reactions displayed by both JFK and JBC at exactly the same moment, are in response to a shot at z223?

If I followed your posts correctly, the argument you made against a shot earlier than z223 is:
1. the response we see in JFK after z225 is an extreme physical reaction;
2. that response is to being shot through the neck;
3. that JFK's visible reaction after z225 could not have been preceded by a less intense reaction over a period of a second or so after being hit at z195 or z210; and
4. to suggest otherwise is preposterous.

I simply pointed out that when the WC, HSCA and Bugliosi, all of whom could see JFK's actions after z225, concluded that the shot was or could have been about a second earlier than z223, they were suggesting that "otherwise" was a reasonable possibility.  I, therefore, said, ok, the WC, HSCA and Bugliosi were being preposterous. That is not my opinion, of course. That is simply the logical conclusion that follows from your argument.

[Dan O'meara]

I have presented arguments that the series of sudden, extreme and rapid physical reactions seen in the Z-film @ z225 are in response to a shot striking both men @z223
JFK's left arm exploding upwards from down by his side up to the very extreme extended position we see in the Z-film. This action taking about 0.38 seconds.
JFK's right hand snapping shut. This action taking less than 0.16 seconds.
And JBC's movement of his Stetson from down by his lap to in front of his face. This action taking about 0.22 seconds.
All incredibly rapid physical movements indicative of reflex reactions.

What other evidence is there in the Z-film that indicates both men are shot through at this time?
I have presented film evidence that I argue shows the exact moment JBC's wrist is impacted by the bullet, forcing his hand down below the edge of the limo door from where it suddenly springs up.
Another piece of film evidence revealing the impact of the bullet is JBC's lapel flap/jacket bulge. The following Gif (z223- z224. Again lifted from Van's site)) clearly shows part of JBC's jacket suddenly moving across the area of his shirt:



The bullet that causes LBC's chest injuries is known to have exited his chest and through the right side of his jacket.
The model I am presenting and the arguments I am presenting that support the model, and from which the model is derived, require the bullet that passes through both JFK and JBC to exit JBC's chest at z223.
It requires the bullet to exit the right side of JBC's jacket at z223
According to my model the so-called lapel flap/jacket bulge can only be caused by the bullet exiting the right side on JBC's jacket.
The fact the right side of JBC's jacket moves in such an extreme fashion at this exact moment cannot, in my opinion, be considered a coincidence. It is clear, physical evidence of the bullet's impact.

Of course, for those who have made up there minds about this issue long ago and have zero mental flexibility this movement of the jacket must be something else. It must also be considered out of context and somehow separate and not related to the multiple physical reactions occurring at this time.
The only real contender as an alternative is that the jacket's lapel is blown by the wind. This is refuted on two counts - we can get a rough measurement of the lapel movement speed from the Z-film. In z223 the lapel appears to be in it's regular position, in z224 it appears to be at it's fullest extension across JBC's shirt. This action has taken place in 0.055 seconds. Bordering on impossible if caused by the wind. Secondly, if we look at the pic below (z224), note the American flag on the front of the limo. At the moment of the flap/bulge, there is hardly any wind on JBC's side of the limo:



Just returning to this clip for a moment:



We are seeing both men shot through at the same moment.
JFK's hands fly to his throat
JBC's wrist is hit forcing his hand down which then springs back up.
JBC's jacket bulges at the same moment
We can also see JBC's body rotate slightly as a result of the impact.

[Andrew Mason]

...
And JBC's movement of his Stetson from down by his lap to in front of his face. This action taking about 0.22 seconds.
All incredibly rapid physical movements indicative of reflex reactions.

What other evidence is there in the Z-film that indicates both men are shot through at this time?
I have presented film evidence that shows the exact moment JBC's wrist is impacted by the bullet, forcing his hand down below the edge of the limo door from where it suddenly springs up.
Another piece of film evidence revealing the impact of the bullet is JBC's lapel flap/jacket bulge. The following Gif (z223- z224. Again lifted from Van's site)) clearly shows part of JBC's jacket suddenly moving across the area of his shirt:



The bullet that causes LBC's chest injuries is known to have exited his chest and through the right side of his jacket.
The model I am presenting and the arguments I am presenting that support the model, and from which the model is derived, require the bullet that passes through both JFK and JBC to exit JBC's chest at z223.
It requires the bullet to exit the right side of JBC's jacket at z223
According to my model the so-called lapel flap/jacket bulge can only be caused by the bullet exiting the right side on JBC's jacket.
The fact the right side of JBC's jacket moves in such an extreme fashion at this exact moment cannot, in my opinion, be considered a coincidence. It is clear, physical evidence of the bullet's impact.

There are at least two differences between z223 and z224 regarding JBC.  There is a reduction in the amount of white shirt visible.  There is also a change in JBC's facing position.  He turns to the left slightly between those two frames.  Are you suggesting that the bullet at z223 that you are hypothesizing also caused him to turn in that space of time?

[Dan O'meara]

He turns to the left slightly between those two frames.  Are you suggesting that the bullet at z223 that you are hypothesizing also caused him to turn in that space of time?

I hadn't yet addressed the issue of JBC's body slightly rotating, so hadn't 'suggested' anything related to it.
However, the answer to your question is "Yes",  JBC's body has ever-so-slightly rotated from one frame to the next (IMO)

[Dan O'meara]

I have argued the Z-film shows the moment JBC's wrist is impacted by the bullet. Obviously none of these arguments are to be taken in isolation but are part of an interlocking 'matrix'.
Supporting the notion that JBC's wrist is impacted at z223 are the following images. The pic below is from z272. I would like to draw attention to Connally's wrist position. In my opinion JBC's hand is at a really unnatural angle which I believe is a result of the bullet impact:



It is not unreasonable to think that such a massive trauma to JBC's wrist would result in a situation where the wrist could no longer support the hand. I believe that is what we are seeing. In the clip below we see JBC's hand, holding his Stetson, reacting to the impact, being driven down then springing up and almost immediately we see this unnatural looking angle of JBC's hand to his wrist.
I am arguing JBC's wrist has been impacted at z223 and the unnatural position of his wrist, immediately after JBC is seen reacting to the shot, supports this view.