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Author Topic: The First Shot  (Read 186769 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #664 on: February 22, 2021, 06:16:56 PM »
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Explain this photo without acting dumb or sounding like one of the Tin Foil Brigade.

Chapman is only here to troll the forum with his self-declared "clever, cut-to-the-quick insights".

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #664 on: February 22, 2021, 06:16:56 PM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #665 on: February 22, 2021, 06:45:46 PM »
Ask me nicely

 ;D

Pretty please Bill.
What are your thoughts on the photo in question?

Online Richard Smith

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #666 on: February 22, 2021, 08:06:36 PM »
In CT Wonderland, nothing is knowable, nothing is provable, and nothing is believable.

Very true.  The contrarian motto is that because everything cannot be known with absolute certainty, nothing can ever be proven.  As a result, there must be doubt regarding any fact in human history because it is possible to dream up an alternative scenario (no matter how baseless or improbable the alternative).  There are no time machines to disprove these improbable alternatives to their subjective satisfaction.  Thus, we must forever reside in a state of uncertainty known as the rabbit hole.  Repeat endless.  When all else fails put a word in quotation marks to suggest fake "doubt." 
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 08:07:14 PM by Richard Smith »

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #666 on: February 22, 2021, 08:06:36 PM »


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #667 on: February 22, 2021, 08:13:49 PM »
I agree, but there are witnesses who seem to state that the shot occurred earlier.
The contradictory nature of eye-witness testimony can be used to support almost any theory/model.
Because there are so many witnesses there is an inevitable variance in the witness accounts as we are dealing with human memory which, as is well documented, isn't a perfect recording system.
On top of this is the possibility to interpret an eye-witness account in many different ways if it is not specific.
The Z-film is the "ultimate eye-witness" in a way. It can be viewed over and over again, paused, slowed down, zoomed in etc.
This doesn't make it infallible because interpreting these images, once again, has the human factor involved.
I view the Z-film as 'primary' evidence and eye-witness accounts as 'secondary', if the eye-witness testimony does not support what we are seeing in the Z-film I discard it and not the other way round.

The greatest mystery to me is that there is any argument over JFK and JBC being shot through at the same time.
From the moment I started examining the Z-film it was absolutely clear it showed both men having extreme reactions at exactly the same moment to what I assume is a shot. I can't get over how obvious it is, and I still can't.

By the same token, I felt the same way about JFK's "back and to the left" motion until I changed my mind.

Agreed, I don't see the doubt about one bullet striking both JFK and JBC. Bill Newman stated he could not tell which man was hit first by the first shot in the WFAA interview.

The eyewitnesses are consistent that the first shot stuck JFK. No one was looking at JBC. Mary Woodward gives a good example by referencing the shot never took place until after JFK faced forward, which does not happen until Z207. The earwitnesses are all over the board and in general describe a shooting sequence that is not representative of the cycle time of the carcano.

An early missed shot is nothing more than an attempt to compensate for the 2.3 second cycle time of the carcano by stretching out the shooting time.
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The HSCA Analysis of the photos concluded The bullet leaving jFK's throat would have to strike JBC. JFK's position in the car ovr shadows JBC's back
Mr. SAWYER. If we were to start at the other end then and assume that a bullet were fired at the approximate time we have determined from the sixth floor of the depository, would it have of necessity given the wounds in the President, would it of necessity, based on what you have determined as to locations somewhat, also have hit Governor Connally?
Mr. CANNING. The bullet would have had to have been substantially deflected by passing through the President in order to miss the Governor. It seems almost inevitable that the Governor would be hit with the alinements that we have found.
Mr. SAWYER. So that if we assume, as apparently is the fact, that this jacketed bullet did not hit anything solid in the way of bone in the President but only traversed the soft tissue of the neck, and presuming the approximate location of the limousine at the time and the posture as nearly as can be determined of the President at that time, that in your view then, absent a deflection of that bullet, it could not have missed Governor Connally.
Mr. CANNING. That is my view, yes.
Mr. SAWYER. I think that is all. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #668 on: February 22, 2021, 08:32:27 PM »
Hi Steve,

Firstly, I couldn't agree with you more about 'confirmation bias' and touched on that issue at the beginning of my last post when I wrote:

"Obviously, Jerry, you will be interpreting things to suit your model as I will be interpreting things to suit mine."

Once a person has established a way of comprehending the evidence  (I call this a 'model') it becomes very difficult to avoid confirmation bias. It becomes almost second nature to see things in a way that favours your model. The important part for me has been the construction of the model. In this thread I have looked at what I believe to be a crucial aspect of understanding the JFK assassination - the shots, in particular the first shot. I've avoided eye-witness testimony where possible, as it can be twisted into almost any point of view, and relied in the most part on the Z-film and Altgens 6, I view these as 'primary' evidence. Obviously eye-witness testimony must come into it to some degree but I view this as 'secondary' evidence, the validity of which must be corroborated by the primary evidence where possible.
The evidence has led me to believe the first shot passed through both JFK and JBC at z223 and this is the model I have presented in this thread. Once my model was established it was then the confirmation bias kicked in and I now interpret any evidence through the filter of the model I've established.
I now put my model forward to be tested and torn down but no serious challenge has arisen. The majority of the thread is spent uncovering the weaknesses in other models and I have seen how confirmation bias can turn into flat-out denial. I know that if a better model than mine comes along I'll adopt that and drop my own as it's something I've done before (a thread  called "Unseeing the Headshot")

With that in mind, have a look over the partial analysis of Altgens 6 I've put forward in recent threads and feel free to point out the weaknesses of it (or strengths if you're so inclined).

 It becomes almost second nature to see things in a way that favours your model.

relied in the most part on the Z-film and Altgens 6, I view these as 'primary' evidence. Obviously eye-witness testimony must come into it to some degree but I view this as 'secondary' evidence, the validity of which must be corroborated by the primary evidence where possible.

FWIW.... I firmly believe that the Z film is tainted....  It was kept from the public for many years.   The conspiirators had ample time to create a Z film that would soupport their tale.   Or at least cast a lot of doubt which would create a huge controversy.

And that's exactly what we have....

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #668 on: February 22, 2021, 08:32:27 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #669 on: February 22, 2021, 09:55:16 PM »
;D

Pretty please Bill.
What are your thoughts on the photo in question?

I'll not get sucked into another one of your bottomless rabbit-holes.

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #670 on: February 22, 2021, 11:18:58 PM »
I'll not get sucked into another one of your bottomless rabbit-holes.


When have we had any kind of interaction regarding the assassination?

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #671 on: February 23, 2021, 12:17:06 AM »
Mr. O'meara: you still don't understand the survey data. I left this thread alone for months. Here you are, still ignoring data.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #671 on: February 23, 2021, 12:17:06 AM »