The First Shot

[Dan O'meara]

Zapruder thought there was only two shots.

Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, as the car came in line almost--I believe it was almost in line. I was standing up here and I was shooting through a telephoto lens, which is a zoom lens and as it reached about--I imagine it was around here--I heard the first shot and I saw the President lean over and grab himself like this (holding his left chest area).
Mr. LIEBELER - Grab himself on the front of his chest?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Right---something like that. In other words, he was sitting like this and waving and then after the shot he just went like that.
Mr. LIEBELER - He was sitting upright in the car and you heard the shot and you saw the President slump over?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Leaning--leaning toward the side of Jacqueline. For a moment I thought it was, you know, like you say, "Oh, he got me," when you hear a shot--you've heard these expressions and then I saw---I don't believe the President is going to make jokes like this, but before I had a chance to organize my mind, I heard a second shot and then I saw his head opened up and the blood and everything came out and I started--I can hardly talk about it [ the witness crying].


Mr. ZAPRUDER - I thought I heard two, it could be three, because to my estimation I thought he was hit on the second--I really don't know. The whole thing that has been transpiring--it was very upsetting and as you see I got a little better all the time and this came up again and it to me looked like the second shot, but I don't know. I never even heard a third shot.
Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't hear any shot after you saw him hit?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - I heard the second--after the first shot--I saw him leaning over and after the second shot--it's possible after what I saw, you know, then I started yelling,




The Willis 5 photo with JFK waving to the crowd in the area of Newman, Chisms, and the secretaries Calvery, Hicks and Westbrook at Z202+.

Mr. ZAPRUDER - I thought I heard two, it could be three, because to my estimation I thought he was hit on the second--I really don't know. The whole thing that has been transpiring--it was very upsetting and as you see I got a little better all the time and this came up again and it to me looked like the second shot, but I don't know. I never even heard a third shot.
Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't hear any shot after you saw him hit?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - I heard the second--after the first shot--I saw him leaning over and after the second shot--it's possible after what I saw, you know, then I started yelling,


Zapruder is clear that it could have been three shots but he was so traumatised by the headshot he "started yelling".
What we can glean from Zapruder's testimony is that the first shot was at z223, the second shot was at z313 and that there was a possible shot after this but he was too traumatised to notice it.

[Dan O'meara]

I recently came across yet another way to corroborate a first shot around z223 thanks to the work of Pat Speer. It concerns the witness statements of the occupants of the Vice-Presidential car and the Vice-Presidential follow-up car. From these statements it is possible to glean an approximate position for each car at the time of the first shot and from these approximate positions it is possible rule out various theories regarding the first shot.
I will look at a number of theories put forward for when the first shot occurred in relation to the Z-Film:

z133 (and before)
z160
z190
z223 (my own proposal for the first shot)

First, a look at the statements:

VICE PRESIDENTIAL CAR

Hurchel Jacks [Driver] -
"My car had just straightened up from making the left turn. I was looking directly at the President’s car at that time. At that time I heard a shot ring out..."

Rufus Youngblood [Passenger Seat] -
"The motorcade then made a left turn, and the sidewalk crowds
were beginning to diminish in size. I observed a grassy plot to my right in back of a small crowd...I heard an explosion…"
"As we were beginning to go down this incline, all of a sudden there was an explosive noise."
"We had straightened on Elm now and were beginning to move easily down the incline in the wake of the cars ahead. Suddenly there was an explosive noise..."

Senator Yarborough [back left] - 
“as the motorcade went down the slope of Elm Street toward the railroad underpass, a rifle shot was heard by me; a loud blast..."

Lady Bird Johnson [back centre] - 
“we were rounding a curve, going down a hill and suddenly there was a sharp loud report..."
"...suddenly in that brilliant sunshine there was a sharp rifle shot. It  came, I thought, from over my right shoulder."

Lyndon Johnson [back right] - 
"After we had proceeded a short way down Elm Street, I heard a sharp report."

VICE-PRESIDENTIAL FOLLOW-UP CAR

Joe Henry Rich [Driver] -
“We turned off of Houston Street onto Elm Street and that was when I heard the first shot."


Cliff Carter [passenger seat]  - 
"...our car had just made the left hand turn onto Elm and was right along side of the Texas School Book Depository Building when I heard a noise which sounded like a firecracker."

Jerry Kivett [back right] - 
"As the motorcade was approximately 1/3 the way to the underpass, traveling between 10 and 15 miles per hour, I heard a loud noise..."

Warren Taylor [back centre] -
“Our automobile had just turned a corner (the names of the streets are unknown to me) when I heard a bang which sounded to me like a possible firecracker —the sound coming from my right rear."

Thomas (Lem) Johns [back right] - 
"We turned onto Elm Street...We were going downhill...which put the Texas Book Depository on our right, more or less...But we were going down this Elm Street, with my door open. I heard at least two shots.."

10 witnesses in 2 vehicles all corroborating each others statements. Not one or two ambiguous statements open to any kind of interpretation. Every single occupant of both cars are stating, basically, the same thing - at the time of the first shot these cars had turned off Houston Street and were travelling down Elm.
I now turn to the work of Mark Tyler to compare how these statements support or refute the various theories put forward.

Z133



In the image above the Vice-Presidential car is marked 7 and the follow-up car 8. It is obvious from this image that both vehicles are still on Houston at the time of this proposed first shot and, as such, a shot around z133 (or before) is absolutely refuted by the 10 witness statements.

Z160



Again, we can clearly see that, although car 7 is well into it's turn, car 8 is still on Houston. The theory of a first shot around z160 is refuted.

Z190



It can be said that car 7 is now travelling down Elm but car 8 is still to complete the turn as specified by the occupants of this car and, as such, a shot around z190 is refuted by the witness statements.

Z223



My own proposal.
It can be seen from the above image that both cars are now travelling on Elm after having completed the turn off Houston. There can be no doubt that this is the only theory that comes anywhere close to fitting the witness statements of the 10 occupants of these vehicles.
Yet further corroboration, if any were needed, that the first shot was the one that struck JFK in the throat around z223.

[Walt Cakebread]

I recently came across yet another way to corroborate a first shot around z223 thanks to the work of Pat Speer. It concerns the witness statements of the occupants of the Vice-Presidential car and the Vice-Presidential follow-up car. From these statements it is possible to glean an approximate position for each car at the time of the first shot and from these approximate positions it is possible rule out various theories regarding the first shot.
I will look at a number of theories put forward for when the first shot occurred in relation to the Z-Film:

z133 (and before)
z160
z190
z223 (my own proposal for the first shot)

First, a look at the statements:

VICE PRESIDENTIAL CAR

Hurchel Jacks [Driver] - "My car had just straightened up from making the left turn. I was looking directly at
                                     the President’s car at that time. At that time I heard a shot ring out..."

Rufus Youngblood [Passenger Seat] - "The motorcade then made a left turn, and the sidewalk crowds were
                                                        beginning to diminish in size. I observed a grassy plot to my right in back of a
                                                        small crowd...I heard an explosion…"
                                                        "As we were beginning to go down this incline, all of a sudden there was
                                                         an explosive noise."
                                                        "We had straightened on Elm now and were beginning to move easily
                                                         down the incline in the wake of the cars ahead. Suddenly there was an
                                                         explosive noise..."

Senator Yarborough [back left] -  “as the motorcade went down the slope of Elm Street toward the railroad
                                                   underpass, a rifle shot was heard by me; a loud blast..."

Lady Bird Johnson [back centre] -  “we were rounding a curve, going down a hill and suddenly there was a
                                                    sharp loud report..."
                                                    "...suddenly in that brilliant sunshine there was a sharp rifle shot. It came,
                                                     I thought, from over my right shoulder."

Lyndon Johnson [back right] -  "After we had proceeded a short way down Elm Street, I heard a sharp report."

VICE-PRESIDENTIAL FOLLOW-UP CAR

Joe Henry Rich [Driver] - “We turned off of Houston Street onto Elm Street and that was when I heard the first
                                       shot."


Cliff Carter [passenger seat]  -  "...our car had just made the left hand turn onto Elm and was right along side
                                               of the Texas School Book Depository Building when I heard a noise which sounded
                                               like a firecracker."

Jerry Kivett [back right] -  "As the motorcade was approximately 1/3 the way to the underpass, traveling
                                        between 10 and 15 miles per hour, I heard a loud noise..."

Warren Taylor [back centre] - “Our automobile had just turned a corner (the names of the streets are
                                              unknown to me) when I heard a bang which sounded to me like a possible firecracker
                                              —the sound coming from my right rear."

Thomas (Lem) Johns [back right] -  "We turned onto Elm Street...We were going downhill...which put the
                                                       Texas Book Depository on our right, more or less...But we were going down
                                                       this Elm Street, with my door open. I heard at least two shots.."

10 witnesses in 2 vehicles all corroborating each others statements. Not one or two ambiguous statements open to any kind of interpretation. Every single occupant of both cars are stating, basically, the same thing - at the time of the first shot these cars had turned off Houston Street and were travelling down Elm.
I now turn to the work of Mark Tyler to compare how these statements support or refute the various theories put forward.

Z133



In the image above the Vice-Presidential car is marked 7 and the follow-up car 8. It is obvious from this image that both vehicles are still on Houston at the time of this proposed first shot and, as such, a shot around z133 (or before) is absolutely refuted by the 10 witness statements.

Z160



Again, we can clearly see that, although car 7 is well into it's turn, car 8 is still on Houston. The theory of a first shot around z160 is refuted.

Z190



It can be said that car 7 is now travelling down Elm but car 8 is still to complete the turn as specified by the occupants of this car and, as such, a shot around z190 is refuted by the witness statements.

Z223



My own proposal.
It can be seen from the above image that both cars are now travelling on Elm after having completed the turn off Houston. There can be no doubt that this is the only theory that comes anywhere close to fitting the witness statements of the 10 occupants of these vehicles.
Yet further corroboration, if any was needed, that the first shot was the one that struck JFK in the throat around z223.

But Dan..... If you use a straight edge from the SE corner window of the TSBD  ( #35 ) to JFK in his Lincoln, you'll find that a tree blocks any shot from point #35.....   And we all know that the arch villian, Lee Harrrrrvey Osssssswald ( BOOOOO, HISS )
performed an impossible feat with that rusty old carcano from that SE corner window.....  We KNOW that Oswald did it because LBJ's "Special Select Blue Ribbon Committee" told us he did.   

[Dan O'meara]

But Dan..... If you use a straight edge from the SE corner window of the TSBD  ( #35 ) to JFK in his Lincoln, you'll find that a tree blocks any shot from point #35.....   And we all know that the arch villian, Lee Harrrrrvey Osssssswald ( BOOOOO, HISS )
performed an impossible feat with that rusty old carcano from that SE corner window.....  We KNOW that Oswald did it because LBJ's "Special Select Blue Ribbon Committee" told us he did.

If you could Walt, please deal with the arguments being presented.

[Walt Cakebread]

If you could Walt, please deal with the arguments being presented.

I thought this was the perfect opportunity to point out that there was a tree between The sixth floor window and JFK at the time he was hit in THE THROAT.

[Dan O'meara]

I thought this was the perfect opportunity to point out that there was a tree between The sixth floor window and JFK at the time he was hit in THE THROAT.

No Walt, this is not the perfect opportunity for your incoherent ramblings.
Over 160 witnesses reported THREE CLEARLY AUDIBLE SHOTS (more than 75% of all witnesses who reported on the shots)
I am trying to establish when the first of these THREE CLEARLY AUDIBLE SHOTS occurred.
Obviously, this is not a topic for flakes who have gunmen all over the place firing a range of weaponry, it's for those who accept credible evidence.
It's important to establish when the first of these THREE CLEARLY AUDIBLE SHOTS occurred as there is no consensus on such a fundamental issue.
If you have a comment to make about the evidence I've presented lets hear it.

[Andrew Mason]

My own proposal.
It can be seen from the above image that both cars are now travelling on Elm after having completed the turn off Houston. There can be no doubt that this is the only theory that comes anywhere close to fitting the witness statements of the 10 occupants of these vehicles.
Yet further corroboration, if any were needed, that the first shot was the one that struck JFK in the throat around z223.

I agree with your reasoning and your conclusion that by z223 there has only been one shot.  I know you think that there was a shot at z223 based on the belief that the change in the appearance of JBC's jacket is caused by a bullet. 

But how do you explain the movement of JFK's left arm from a full wave in z193 to a clenched fist in front of his neck at z224.  The arm movement and fist clench had to have occurred before the shot, if the shot was a z223.  How do you explain that?  Pre-cognition?  And how would the bullet exiting his neck not strike the fist or arm?

The evidence you have provided is equally consistent with a first shot about a second earlier. Also, the Secret Service film shows that Oswald would have had a clear view of JFK without obstruction by the oak tree by the time he was between the lamp post and the Thornton sign, which is before z200. Karen Westbrook was standing opposite JFK at about z225 according to Roberdeau's map.  She said (22 H 679): "The car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was standing when I heard the first explosion." If the President was directly in front of her at the time of the shot, as you suggest, the car would have been almost past her not almost directly in front of where she was standing as she stated.  Jane Berry, who was about 20 feet farther east according to Roberdeau's map and opposite JFK at z200, said the first shot occurred just as the car was passing her.  That puts the first shot around z200.  TE Moore said that by the time the President had reached the Thornton Freeway sign, a shot was fired.  JFK was opposite the Thornton sign at z200.

[Dan O'meara]

I agree with your reasoning and your conclusion that by z223 there has only been one shot.  I know you think that there was a shot at z223 based on the belief that the change in the appearance of JBC's jacket is caused by a bullet.

I have presented a multitude of arguments in this thread demonstrating the first shot occurred at z223. The radical bulging of the right side of JBC's jacket caused by the bullet exiting his chest is just one piece of evidence confirming my "belief".
The latest argument, based on the work of Pat Speer and Mark Tyler, refutes all other theories regarding when the first shot occurred, including your own (unless you've changed it again).

But how do you explain the movement of JFK's left arm from a full wave in z193 to a clenched fist in front of his neck at z224.  The arm movement and fist clench had to have occurred before the shot, if the shot was a z223.  How do you explain that?  Pre-cognition?  And how would the bullet exiting his neck not strike the fist or arm?

This has been explained at length in this thread and has nothing to do with pre-cognition.

The evidence you have provided is equally consistent with a first shot about a second earlier. Also, the Secret Service film shows that Oswald would have had a clear view of JFK without obstruction by the oak tree by the time he was between the lamp post and the Thornton sign, which is before z200.

"The evidence you have provided is equally consistent with a first shot about a second earlier."

So you're now changing your theory to a first shot around z205?

What are you basing that on?