The First Shot

[Dan O'meara]

Mary Woodward did NOT say that the second shot was the headshot.  She said the headshot was the third  and last shot. She makes this clear in this interview at around the 2:15 mark.

That's not what she wrote the day after the shooting.
But years later she's changed her tune.

And round and round we go.

[Andrew Mason]

That's not what she wrote the day after the shooting.
But years later she's changed her tune.

And round and round we go.

She did not EVER say that there was a shot after the headshot.  That is not what she said in her article written a few hours after the shooting.   She did not go into detail of the head shot in her Dallas Morning News story, perhaps because she was writing for a newspaper. She did not think the first shot hit JFK but noticed him to start slumping after she heard the second shot. Do you actually think "start slumping" describes the headshot? And you accuse me of having confirmation bias!

Her later interview linked in my last post may explain (at 1:45) why she did not see JFK responding to the first shot: she turned to her friends. 

• "And at that moment I heard a very loud noise. And I wasn't sure what it was at that point. And I turned to my friends and asked what was that. Is some jerk shooting off firecrackers?"

I have noticed that the more one digs, one finds even more support for the head shot as the last shot. Marilyn Sitzman, standing behind Abraham Zapruder observed the head shot to be the last:

• "Q: Did you have an unobstructed view of President Kennedy at the time of the third shot?
  A: Absolutely.
  Q: Mrs. Willis, would you please describe for the Gentlemen of the Jury and the Court what you saw as a result and as the effects of this third shot?
  A: On the third shot his head exploded and went back and to the left.
  Q: Did you observe anything, anything other than the explosion?
  A: It exploded like a red halo."

(Shaw trial, Feb. 14, 1969)

So far you have Charles Brehm saying that he thought there was a shot after the headshot and Mr. Templin saying something similar in 1995.  There are at least 19 witnesses who had a clear recollection that the head shot was the last shot.

And remember: if the last shot was the headshot, you would have to agree that there was a shot a couple of seconds before z313 - ie. around z270

[Dan O'meara]

She did not EVER say that there was a shot after the headshot.  That is not what she said in her article written a few hours after the shooting.   She did not go into detail of the head shot in her Dallas Morning News story, perhaps because she was writing for a newspaper. She did not think the first shot hit JFK but noticed him to start slumping after she heard the second shot. Do you actually think "start slumping" describes the headshot? And you accuse me of having confirmation bias!

Her later interview linked in my last post may explain (at 1:45) why she did not see JFK responding to the first shot: she turned to her friends. 

• "And at that moment I heard a very loud noise. And I wasn't sure what it was at that point. And I turned to my friends and asked what was that. Is some jerk shooting off firecrackers?"

I have noticed that the more one digs, one finds even more support for the head shot as the last shot. Marilyn Sitzman, standing behind Abraham Zapruder observed the head shot to be the last:

• "Q: Did you have an unobstructed view of President Kennedy at the time of the third shot?
  A: Absolutely.
  Q: Mrs. Willis, would you please describe for the Gentlemen of the Jury and the Court what you saw as a result and as the effects of this third shot?
  A: On the third shot his head exploded and went back and to the left.
  Q: Did you observe anything, anything other than the explosion?
  A: It exploded like a red halo."

(Shaw trial, Feb. 14, 1969)

So far you have Charles Brehm saying that he thought there was a shot after the headshot and Mr. Templin saying something similar in 1995.  There are at least 19 witnesses who had a clear recollection that the head shot was the last shot.

And remember: if the last shot was the headshot, you would have to agree that there was a shot a couple of seconds before z313 - ie. around z270

I've allowed your various strategies to frustrate my thinking and have been focussed on proving you wrong rather than on demonstrating the validity of my own model.
So I've taken a step back and reviewed the last few pages.
One thing is for certain - no shot struck JBC around z270. That is unequivocally demonstrated by the Z-film irrespective of anything you might say.
But that doesn't mean there wasn't a shot around this time.
The weak point of my model has always been the third missed shot for which there is no direct evidence in the photographic/film record.
But why have the shot miss after the headshot, why not have it miss before the headshot.
This raises it's own difficulties but it doesn't, in essence, alter the things of which I am certain -

There are three clearly audible shots
The distinctive pattern of those shots
That both men are shot through by the first shot

[Andrew Mason]

I've allowed your various strategies to frustrate my thinking and have been focussed on proving you wrong rather than on demonstrating the validity of my own model.
So I've taken a step back and reviewed the last few pages.
One thing is for certain - no shot struck JBC around z270. That is unequivocally demonstrated by the Z-film irrespective of anything you might say.
But that doesn't mean there wasn't a shot around this time.
The weak point of my model has always been the third missed shot for which there is no direct evidence in the photographic/film record.
But why have the shot miss after the headshot, why not have it miss before the headshot.
This raises it's own difficulties but it doesn't, in essence, alter the things of which I am certain -

There are three clearly audible shots
The distinctive pattern of those shots
That both men are shot through by the first shot

Ok. Progress! So there may have been a shot at z270.  Given the overwhelming preponderance of evidence of the 1...........2......3 shot pattern if the last shot was the headshot (as you have not ruled out), there is no other conclusion possible.

I won't be able to persuade you that there really was a shot at z271-272 that hit JBC in the back. We'll leave that for as it is.

I would be interested, however, in your explanation for CE399.  A while back you indicated that the first shot SBT was not achieved by CE399.  Where do you think CE399 came from then?

In my view, the evidence against Oswald is overwhelming and the evidence for anyone else being involved is non-existent. I just find that the SBT does not fit the evidence and that 3 shots, 3 hits, one shooter does.

[Dan O'meara]

Ok. Progress! So there may have been a shot at z270.  Given the overwhelming preponderance of evidence of the 1...........2......3 shot pattern if the last shot was the headshot (as you have not ruled out), there is no other conclusion possible.

I won't be able to persuade you that there really was a shot at z271-272 that hit JBC in the back. We'll leave that for as it is.

I would be interested, however, in your explanation for CE399.  A while back you indicated that the first shot SBT was not achieved by CE399.  Where do you think CE399 came from then?

In my view, the evidence against Oswald is overwhelming and the evidence for anyone else being involved is non-existent. I just find that the SBT does not fit the evidence and that 3 shots, 3 hits, one shooter does.

I'm of the opinion that the bullet that struck JBC's wrist fragmented on impact, there is a relatively large entrance wound on the lateral side of his arm just above the wrist and a small slit-like exit in the crease of his wrist, plus metallic particles embedded in his wrist.
This bullet is not CE399
The bullet that struck JFK's head also fragmented, spraying the front of the limo.
This bullet is not CE399
And one bullet missed - who knows what happened to that? Could that somehow be CE399? I doubt it very much.

Where did CE 399 come from?
A corridor in Parkland hospital.
How did it get there?
Who knows beyond speculation.

[Andrew Mason]

I'm of the opinion that the bullet that struck JBC's wrist fragmented on impact, there is a relatively large entrance wound on the lateral side of his arm just above the wrist and a small slit-like exit in the crease of his wrist, plus metallic particles embedded in his wrist.
This bullet is not CE399
The bullet that struck JFK's head also fragmented, spraying the front of the limo.
This bullet is not CE399

Of course  a much simpler explanation that I suggest is a better fit with the trajectory is that CE399 passed through JFK and stuck in JBC's thigh.

And one bullet missed - who knows what happened to that? Could that somehow be CE399? I doubt it very much.

Where did CE 399 come from?
A corridor in Parkland hospital.
How did it get there?
Who knows beyond speculation.

3 shots, 3 hits fits all the evidence including the fact that Oswald fired all 3 shots.

[Dan O'meara]

Of course  a much simpler explanation that I suggest is a better fit with the trajectory is that CE399 passed through JFK and stuck in JBC's thigh. 3 shots, 3 hits fits all the evidence including the fact that Oswald fired all 3 shots.

It doesn't fit with all the evidence does it though.
The Z-film is evidence.
It proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that bullet passing through JBC, shattering his wrist did not occur in the z270's.
Not to mention it is a physical impossibility a shot from the TSBD could have passed through JBC and hit his wrist in front of his chest around the z270's because of his seated position.

It fits "all the evidence" you want it to fit.
You rely almost totally on contradictory eye-witness accounts.

And as for the neck-to-thigh shot...
Apart from the physical impossibility of it, try to explain how the bullet, barely slowed down after passing through JFK, doesn't pass through JBC's leg.
How does the bullet just fall out of his leg?

"All the evidence"?

A first shot through the oak tree in the z190's?  I don't think so.

Explain how, in frame z222 we see JBC's shirt cuff above the limo door and in z223, 0.055 seconds later it has disappeared down beneath the door.
Coincidentally, the beginning of the incredibly rapid movement of his arm in the following frames.

Explain the right side of JBC's jacket suddenly bulging forward at the same moment, the part of his jacket we know a bullet passed through.

"All the evidence"?

[Andrew Mason]

It doesn't fit with all the evidence does it though.
The Z-film is evidence.

I say it fits the zfilm.  It just doesn't fit what you think the zfilm should show if JBC was hit in the back and wrist at z271-272.

It proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that bullet passing through JBC, shattering his wrist did not occur in the z270's.

Well, it does not show what you think it should show if JBC's wrist was shattered at z271-272.

Not to mention it is a physical impossibility a shot from the TSBD could have passed through JBC and hit his wrist in front of his chest around the z270's because of his seated position.

Physically impossible? Not if the bullet deflected on hitting the fifth rib.  Keep in mind that it did not penetrate the rib where it struck it in the back.  That means it deflected and followed the rib until the last 10 cm of the fifth rib. Then, it passed through the rib and exited just below the right nipple.  On exiting the chest it struck the right wrist that was then pressed into the chest. It deflected off the back of the wrist (ie. to the left) It did not exit through the french cuff on the palm side of the wrist. 

How could the bullet not have made a hole in the palm side of the cuff similar to the hole in the dorsal side if it exited the palm side of the wrist? And how does it deflect over to the left side?  How does it deflect around the point of contact on the radius?

And as for the neck-to-thigh shot...
Apart from the physical impossibility of it, try to explain how the bullet, barely slowed down after passing through JFK, doesn't pass through JBC's leg.
How does the bullet just fall out of his leg?

Dr,. Shires thought the bullet hole in his thigh could have been made by a pristine bullet if it hit at an oblique angle.  We don't have enough evidence to say anything more than that the trajectory from the SN through JFK's neck to JBC's left side works.  And the wound in the thigh is consistent with having been made by the butt end of CE399.  If we knew exactly where and how the bullet fell out of JBC, I would have a better answer for you.

"All the evidence"?

A first shot through the oak tree in the z190's?  I don't think so.

Explain how, in frame z222 we see JBC's shirt cuff above the limo door and in z223, 0.055 seconds later it has disappeared down beneath the door.
Coincidentally, the beginning of the incredibly rapid movement of his arm in the following frames.

It is not all that rapid. It moves from slightly above the edge of the car to out of sight in 55 ms.  So it moves maybe as much as 3 inches in 55 ms. which is about 55 inches in a second.   I can move my arm that fast quite easily.  It looks to me like JBC is moving his arms so he can turn around to see JFK.  That's what he said he did.  And that is what he does immediately after.  The Newmans saw him turn around to look at JFK after the first shot and before the second. After the second, they observed him holding his stomach and falling back.

Explain the right side of JBC's jacket suddenly bulging forward at the same moment, the part of his jacket we know a bullet passed through.

"All the evidence"?

I have. Several times. It doesn't bulge. The lapel moves.  In z224 the jacket looks very similar to z222.  The question is what happened between z222-223 and why did it go back to looking like z222 in the next frame?  The obvious answer, is that the jacket moved or it was a combination of jacket motion and shadow.