Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: The First Shot  (Read 167154 times)

Offline Andrew Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1402
    • SPMLaw
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #984 on: March 31, 2023, 08:05:37 PM »
Advertisement
“One” has managed to compare witnesses with statements indicating a missed first shot, with a missed second shot, with a missed third shot, with two shot witnesses and with witnesses who state the second shot is the head shot, with witnesses who state they discussed the event and came to agreed conclusion. How about clue in and dump this idiot nonsense.
Ok.  But there is a lot of evidence that the head shot was the last shot.  You don't happen to find that evidence persuasive but many do.  The only thing "bizarre" about a conclusion based on acceptance of that evidence is you calling it bizarre and idiot nonsense.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #984 on: March 31, 2023, 08:05:37 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3160
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #985 on: March 31, 2023, 09:36:19 PM »
Do you mean post #605: "The possibility exists Nellie is mistaken" or post #616: "Nellie Connally is mistaken in believing JBC cries out before being hit." or your suggestion in post #625 in response to me pointing out that "we have only JBC's evidence to go by, which is that he felt the impact and saw that he had been shot but did not recall hearing the sound of the shot." saying "I'll need some kind of evidence for this baloney, otherwise we'll go with the common sense explanation - there was no second shot to hear."

This is not dealing with their evidence.  You need to show evidence that conflicts with their clear statements that he was was hit on the second shot.  Gayle Newman said he was directly in front of her when hit by the second shot - she was 15 feet away from him  - and said he "kind of grabbed his chest and lay back on the seat of the car" (24 H 218)
You are unintentionally making my point.  All you do is repeat how convinced you are that JBC is reacting to being shot in the back beginning about z228.  To deal with Nellie and JBC's clear evidence that he was not hit in the back by that first shot you need other evidence that he was hit in the back. 

There are, of course, the statements of JBC and Nellie to the WC stating that they think that JBC was hit in frames z230 to z234. 

Had you raised that evidence, which as far as I can see is the only evidence that JBC was hit that early, I would have shown how that evidence conflicts the rest of the evidence that shows that the second shot and third shots were in rapid succession. It also conflicts with Nellie's statements that JBC said "Oh, no, no" before the second shot (he is saying it around z245) and that she never looked back after the second shot.  She turns to look at JFK in the z250's until z270.  It also conflicts with evidence that JBC turned around to see JFK after the first and before the shot that hit him in the back.  There is no attempt to turn around to see JFK before z230.No. It is quick, but quite credible. He said he heard the shot and recognized it as a rifle shot, turned around to see JFK, fearing an assassination taking place.  That is what it looks like he is doing from z228 to z270.

On the one hand, it is genuinely staggering that you openly refuse to acknowledge JBC's movement as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign. Refusing to acknowledge the reality of this key piece of evidence regarding the shooting of JBC. It is there for all to see.
On the other, it's not surprising, in fact I knew you were going to do it, which is exactly why I asked the question. Having dealt with your feeble attempts to bolster your dead theory for some time, I've noticed something about your approach to handling the numerous pieces of evidence that end your dead theory. Your replies can often contain falsehood and misrepresentation, but at all times there is denial.
You have revealed the depths of your denial to anyone reading this thread.

Just to reiterate the key piece of evidence you are refusing to acknowledge:

The z-frame below [z223] shows JBC as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign. He seems calm and composed. There is not the slightest hint he is in discomfort as he looks towards the thinning crowds to his right. This is how he looked as he passed behind the Stemmons sign.
And let us not forget - according to your dead theory, by this frame Connally has already been shot in the leg, having been shot in the leg before he passed behind the Stemmons sign [ :D ] Just one of the many pieces of evidence you have to retreat into denial from.



After having emerged from behind the sign JBC's calm demeanor quickly vanishes as he begins to thrash around. From a seemingly relaxed position his arm rockets upwards so that his Stetson is suddenly in front of his face. This action takes 0.33 seconds to complete. One third of a second!
As has been demonstrated elsewhere in this thread, at the exact moment JBC begins his incredibly rapid arm movement, behind him JFK also begins his own incredibly rapid arm movement - at the same split second.

What could cause both men to suddenly move with incredible rapidity at exactly the same moment?




« Last Edit: March 31, 2023, 09:39:36 PM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Andrew Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1402
    • SPMLaw
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #986 on: April 01, 2023, 12:17:48 AM »
On the one hand, it is genuinely staggering that you openly refuse to acknowledge JBC's movement as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign. Refusing to acknowledge the reality of this key piece of evidence regarding the shooting of JBC. It is there for all to see.
When have I ever refused to acknowledge JBC's movement as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign?  It is plain as day. Have you not read anything I have written? 

Quote
On the other, it's not surprising, in fact I knew you were going to do it, which is exactly why I asked the question. Having dealt with your feeble attempts to bolster your dead theory for some time, I've noticed something about your approach to handling the numerous pieces of evidence that end your dead theory. Your replies can often contain falsehood and misrepresentation, but at all times there is denial.
You have revealed the depths of your denial to anyone reading this thread.

Just to reiterate the key piece of evidence you are refusing to acknowledge:

The z-frame below [z223] shows JBC as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign. He seems calm and composed. There is not the slightest hint he is in discomfort as he looks towards the thinning crowds to his right. This is how he looked as he passed behind the Stemmons sign.
Of course.  He was not hit in the back by it and he never felt the bullet striking his thigh.  He was momentarily processing the sound that he had just heard and begins reacting at z228 - not to being hit by it but by recognizing it as a rifle shot and fearing and assassination was underway.

Quote
And let us not forget - according to your dead theory, by this frame Connally has already been shot in the leg, having been shot in the leg before he passed behind the Stemmons sign [ :D ] Just one of the many pieces of evidence you have to retreat into denial from.

You assume that he necessarily would have immediately felt a bullet striking his thigh.  He said he never felt the thigh wound.

It may surprise you but bullets are not often felt unless it hits a nerve or hits bone with a lot of force.  Don't take it from me, listen to someone who knows what it feels like to be shot (she talks about her chest wound at about 5:05):
See also her TikTok video (download first and then play if it stops midway)
This woman was shot during a bank robbery in the chest and wrist.  She felt neither impact but did immediately feel the effect of the wrist wound because the bullet hit a nerve.  She did not feel the chest wound at all and didn't even notice it until minutes later when someone noticed she was bleeding in the chest.
Quote
After having emerged from behind the sign JBC's calm demeanor quickly vanishes as he begins to thrash around. From a seemingly relaxed position his arm rockets upwards so that his Stetson is suddenly in front of his face. This action takes 0.33 seconds to complete. One third of a second!
As has been demonstrated elsewhere in this thread, at the exact moment JBC begins his incredibly rapid arm movement, behind him JFK also begins his own incredibly rapid arm movement - at the same split second.

What could cause both men to suddenly move with incredible rapidity at exactly the same moment?
A rifle shot, obviously. 
« Last Edit: April 01, 2023, 12:21:14 AM by Andrew Mason »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #986 on: April 01, 2023, 12:17:48 AM »


Offline Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3160
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #987 on: April 01, 2023, 12:36:35 AM »
When have I ever refused to acknowledge JBC's movement as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign?  It is plain as day. Have you not read anything I have written? 

??
Reply#1089 towards the top of the last page.
I presented the film/photographic evidence that as JBC emerged from behind the Stemmons sign he appeared calm and relaxed and in an instant he made an incredibly quick thrashing movement.
I asked you:

"Do you acknowledge the evidence that JBC makes this incredibly quick movement as soon as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign?"
You replied- "No."

There's no point in back-tracking now.

Quote
Of course.  He was not hit in the back by it and he never felt the bullet striking his thigh.  He was momentarily processing the sound that he had just heard and begins reacting at z228 - not to being hit by it but by recognizing it as a rifle shot and fearing and assassination was underway.

You assume that he necessarily would have immediately felt a bullet striking his thigh.  He said he never felt the thigh wound.

It may surprise you but bullets are not often felt unless it hits a nerve or hits bone with a lot of force.  Don't take it from me, listen to someone who knows what it feels like to be shot (she talks about her chest wound at about 5:05):
See also her TikTok video (download first and then play if it stops midway)
This woman was shot during a bank robbery in the chest and wrist.  She felt neither impact but did immediately feel the effect of the wrist wound because the bullet hit a nerve.  She did not feel the chest wound at all and didn't even notice it until minutes later when someone noticed she was bleeding in the chest.

"... he never felt the bullet striking his thigh."

 :D :D :D
The ridiculous things you have to make yourself believe in order to keep faith in your dead theory... ::)

Quote
A rifle shot, obviously.

Obviously.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2023, 12:37:10 AM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Andrew Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1402
    • SPMLaw
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #988 on: April 01, 2023, 02:32:58 AM »
??
Reply#1089 towards the top of the last page.
I presented the film/photographic evidence that as JBC emerged from behind the Stemmons sign he appeared calm and relaxed and in an instant he made an incredibly quick thrashing movement.
I asked you:

"Do you acknowledge the evidence that JBC makes this incredibly quick movement as soon as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign?"
You replied- "No."

There's no point in back-tracking now.
I said "No. It is quick, but quite credible".

You are trying to relate his actions to an event at z223 or z224. If he was reacting at z228 to a shot at z223 or z224 it would be incredible as in not believable. According to the evidence he is reacting quickly, but believably so, to a shot about 1.5 seconds earlier that, according to his evidence, he heard but did not feel.

To accept your theory that JFK is NOT reacting to his neck wound prior to z226 one would have to explain the dramatic change from a smiling wave 1.5 seconds earlier to having curled hands and a look of horror on his face before he was shot. Was the clairvoyant President steeling himself for the bullet he was about to receive?



JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #988 on: April 01, 2023, 02:32:58 AM »


Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 909
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #989 on: April 01, 2023, 02:55:10 PM »
A Connally jacket pluck (or lapel flip) at Z224 shows that a slug exited Connally throo Connally's jacket near the lapel (it went throo the inside RH pocket actually)(tumbling)(slightly sideways)(probly end over end)(i karnt remember) at say Z219.
But Z218 or Z219 or Z220 makes little difference to any theory -- it means that Oswald fired at say Z215 or Z216 or Z217 -- he fired his first shot at pseudo-Z112.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2023, 03:01:28 PM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

Offline Andrew Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1402
    • SPMLaw
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #990 on: April 01, 2023, 03:02:59 PM »
Between Z222 and Z226, Kennedy and Connally are simultaneously reacting involuntarily to a shot (SBT) that struck about Z221/Z222. Their conscious reactions may begin at Z226 (if Kennedy's right hand towards the throat Z225-Z226 is voluntary). Z227 is blurred; the two men appear to reaction voluntarily at Z228.

Not this thing about the "look of horror".



The cupped right hand could be involuntary, given the nerve trauma near the cervical spine. Or it could be Kennedy was about to rest it that way on the car rail, as he had done during the motorcade.



The President had been waving with his right arm as he approached the sign; he begins to lower that arm as the car takes him behind the sign. Between Z224 and Z225, the right arm continues lowering. The hand diverts towards the throat Z226/Z226.
Very persuasive Jerry. Really. I now see what you guys have been saying and I have to say that I have finally realized I have been wrong about the SBT. I am now convinced that really did happen the way you have been saying. I don't know how I missed it.   I apologize to Dan and you and Jack and all the others for being so intransigent about wanting to follow the witness evidence. More to follow.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2023, 04:34:52 PM by Andrew Mason »

Offline Mitch Todd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 920
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #991 on: April 01, 2023, 05:48:15 PM »
Very persuasive Jerry. Really. I now see what you guys have been saying and I have to say that I have finally realized I have been wrong about the SBT. I am now convinced that really did happen the way you have been saying. I don't know how I missed it.   I apologize to Dan and you and Jack and all the others for being so intransigent about wanting to follow the witness evidence. More to follow.
To think that today of all days Andrew would give in....

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #991 on: April 01, 2023, 05:48:15 PM »