The First Shot

[Dan O'meara]

It looks like the left hand has moved toward the chest from z224 to z225.

His left hand has fractionally moved upwards, towards his chest. It is down by his side as he passes behind the Stemmons sign and it is in the same position, down by his side, when he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign in z224. In z225 there is the first hint of the movement that will have his left arm rocketing up to an incredibly extreme physical position.
The pic on the left below shows JFK's left arm position at z183, before he passes behind the Stemmons sign. The pic on the right shows the left arm in the same position after he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign, in z224.



From the resting position, down at his side, JFK's left arm suddenly rockets upwards into a really extreme physical position. His elbows are extended upwards to, what appears to be, their fullest extent. I would urge any reader of this to replicate this position to get an idea of how extreme it is. Even more extreme is the amount of time it takes his left arm to go from a resting position into this extreme posture - it is a fraction of a second.
It is surely a rapid reflex reaction to damage caused directly to the central nervous system by the bullet that transits through JFK's neck. JFK's reaction to this shot is quite startling - his hands clench into fists which he jams under his chin area as his elbows fly up in the air in quite an extraordinary fashion, his whole upper body becoming temporarily rigid before relaxing slightly. It is a really extreme and rapid reaction:



It really is an extraordinary and profound reaction. There can be little argument it is a reaction to being shot. The pic below shows how extreme the reaction is:



This pic is from z232. As we have seen, at z224 JFK's left arm is down by his side yet at z232, half a second later his left elbow is thrust up to what appears to be it's maximum extension (as I say, try replicating this position, I know I can get my left elbow barely any higher than JFK's and that's really trying).
Half a second to get his left elbow from a resting postion at his side to, what I am assuming is, it's maximum extension. Trying to do this with a conscious effort is barely possible but in JFK's case, this is done from a resting position with no expectation that this reaction will be happening. From a completely relaxed state to rigidity in less than half a second.

So when does this extreme reaction begin?:

In the clip below (z224-226) we see his left hand still resting on his stomach area, his left elbow down by his side but obscured by the top of the limo door (z224). In the next frame there is a slight movement of his left arm and hand (z225). In the final frame his elbow comes into view from behind the limo door, his hand clearly moving to his throat (z226):



It is clear from the above frames that this extreme movement of JFK's left arm can be seen most obviously in z226, when his left elbow, which has been hidden from view by the limo door up to this point, suddenly comes into view. We can say with little doubt that JFK's extreme reaction has begun by z226. I believe there is a first hint of movement seen in z225.

The Z-film shows an extraordinary and extreme reaction to being shot. It begins at z225. Before this point in the film there is nothing - absolutely nothing - that even hints at such an extreme reaction. As JFK begins his last wave he turns and smiles towards the people to his right. His finishes waving and is bringing his hand back down and turning slightly forward as he passes behind the sign. Perfectly normal actions. His left arm is down by his side for, what may well be, the duration of the Z-film from z133 to z225. Within less than half a second his left elbow rockets up from a relaxed position down by his side to it's maximum extension. I believe it is a reflex reaction to a massive trauma of the Brachial Plexus - the nerves that control function of the arms and hands - that the bullet is known to have passed through.
Whatever the case, there is nothing in the Z-film that is remotely comparable to the extreme reaction to being hit by the first shot prior to z224. Arguments about slight head turns or what might have gone on behind the sign are redundant as we get to see the full extent of JFK's reaction by monitoring the position of his left arm.
IT IS ALL SHOWN IN THE Z-FILM.

Ultimately, you are correct - JFK's left arm does show a sight movement in z225.
But I'd already pointed that out.

Jackie turns her head from looking left in z173 to looking somewhat right by z193 looking toward the crowd on the right but not looking at JFK.  She then turns farther right until about z212 so that she is looking right at her husband (seen by her hat in z212) and holds this position after she emerges from behind the Stemmons sign:

Again, I'd already pointed that out.
Thanks for agreeing though.

[Dan O'meara]

With all due respect John, you're wrong.

In her Oral History, Karen Westbrook identifies herself as the woman in the blue headscarf in the pic below [who I have labeled Sharon Simmons].
She identifies the blonde woman to her left as Gloria Calvery [Gloria Holt]
She identifies the woman with the dark hair as "one of the Carol's" [Stella Jacobs]



Her identifications begin to falter almost immediately.
Firstly, in her interview she states that the "two Carol's" were with the group of four woman who went to watch the motorcade. This is incorrect as Carol Hughes stayed behind in the office. The four women consisted of Westbrook, Gloria Calvery, Carol Reed and Karen Hicks.
Secondly, in her interview, and in every statement given by the group of four, they are all together watching the motorcade. In the pic above there are only three women stood together. The woman stood to the left of Stella Jacobs/One-of-the-Carol's has confidently been identified as June Dishong. As Speer notes, "researcher Don Roberdeau contacted Dishong's family, and they told him she'd identified herself as the woman [stood to the left of Jacobs]."

Westbrook's identifications really fall down when it is realised that the three women in question were filmed by Darnell in the aftermath of the assassination:



Darnell films these three women in the immediate aftermath of the assassination. We can see from the pergola in the background that these women are walking in the general direction of the TSBD building and have come from the general direction of the Stemmons sign.
We know from the photo/film record that they can only be the three women in the Z-frame crop at the top. This identification is certain.
According to Westbrook, she is the woman in the headscarf to the right, in the middle is Gloria Calvery, and to the left "one of the Carol's".
We can now compare the Darnell pic with known photos of the women in question.
Westbrook donated a series of 6 photographs to the Sixth Floor Museum -https://emuseum.jfk.org/search/%22karen%20westbrook%20scranton%22

She also provides identifications for the women in these photos where she can.

screen shot on a pc

The above pic comes with the following information:
"This photo was taken in December 1963, shortly before Christmas. Karen Westbrook, who was a stenographer with South-Western Publishing in 1963-1964, identified the women as follows: From left to right in this photo: Woman with dark hair whose name is unknown, Gloria Calvery (red hair, with glasses), Carol (last name unknown), another Carol (last name unknown), Karen Hicks in red, and on the far right, Westbrook."

The first thing that becomes startlingly clear is that the woman on the left in the Darnell pic is non-Caucasian. There is zero doubt that Westbrook's identification of this woman is incorrect. That is certain.
Her identification of Gloria Calvery is also clearly incorrect. The blonde woman in the middle of the Darnell pic can in no way be mistaken for the flame-red haired, bespectacled Gloria Calvery.

screen shot in windows

In order to correctly identify Westbrook in the Z-film we should be looking for a group of four woman, two taller and two shorter, and at least one of them [Westbrook] wearing a headscarf.
It was Tommy Graves who first correctly identified the three women in the Darnell clip. Simply by noting that in her CE 1381, Stella Jacobs reveals she was an "Indian female", that is to say, non-Caucasian. It was also noted that she placed herself with Gloria Jean Holt and Sharon Simmons about fifty yards down Elm Street.
I believe it was researcher Denis Morrissette who reached out to Holt's family and had a positive identification for Gloria Holt in the Darnell pic by her brother.

Westbrook's identification of herself in the Z-film is clearly incorrect. This is no big deal, she is looking at a picture of a woman wearing a headscarf from behind. Her identification appears to rest solely on the fact she was wearing a headscarf that day.

[Andrew Mason]

A group of five witnesses to her right - Templin, Brandt, Newman, Burney and Dishong - unanimously agree that JFK had passed their position at the time of the first shot.
Westbrook's reported phrase, that the "car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was standing when I heard the first explosion", simply means that her position was close to the limo at the time of the first shot. It does not give us any information as to whether the limo had passed her position or not. You have chosen it to mean the limo had not yet reached her position. That's your choice. You do this in spite of the group of witnesses to her right who have the limo already past their position at the time of the first shot. Something that agrees with John Chism's claim that the limo was in front of him at the time of the first shot.
That you prefer your own twisted interpretation of a single piece of evidence to suit your own needs, over the mass of evidence contradicting you dead theory, isn't anything new.

Chism did not say that the limo was in front of him at the time of the first shot. He said "And just as he got just about in front of me, he turned and waved to the crowd on this side of the street, the right side; and I heard what sounded like one shot..."  So the "just about in front of me" refers to the car position when JFK turned from z172 to z180 (which must be the turn to which he is referring).  That was, in his perception, "just about in front" of him.  And, as I pointed out, the witnesses to whom you refer, other than Templin and Brandt who first spoke about it 30 years after the fact, do not say that JFK had passed them at the time of the first shot.

[Andrew Mason]

With all due respect John, you're wrong.

In her Oral History, Karen Westbrook identifies herself as the woman in the blue headscarf in the pic below [who I have labeled Sharon Simmons].
She identifies the blonde woman to her left as Gloria Calvery [Gloria Holt]
She identifies the woman with the dark hair as "one of the Carol's" [Stella Jacobs]

.....Westbrook's identification of herself in the Z-film is clearly incorrect. This is no big deal, she is looking at a picture of a woman wearing a headscarf from behind. Her identification appears to rest solely on the fact she was wearing a headscarf that day.

I have to agree with you on this. Thanks for the explanation.

First of all, we have statements from four women saying that they stood together. There are only three in that group. We can see the woman with the blue scarf in Willis' photo #5 and there is no one to her right. Second, the woman to the left of the woman in the blue scarf has blond hair, not red hair.  Finally, the three women shown in the Darnell film match the group of three seen in the zfilm beside the Stemmons sign. There is no other group of women along the north side of Elm that were remotely similar.  There was no one on the south side of Elm that were similar either.  It is interesting that both Holt and Jacob gave statements that they were on the south side of Elm but the description of how they got to where they stood indicates that they did not walk across the intersection. Possibly they were thinking they were on the south side of the little part of the street that goes in front of the TSBD.

[Dan O'meara]

Chism did not say that the limo was in front of him at the time of the first shot. He said "And just as he got just about in front of me, he turned and waved to the crowd on this side of the street, the right side; and I heard what sounded like one shot..."  So the "just about in front of me" refers to the car position when JFK turned from z172 to z180 (which must be the turn to which he is referring).  That was, in his perception, "just about in front" of him.  And, as I pointed out, the witnesses to whom you refer, other than Templin and Brandt who first spoke about it 30 years after the fact, do not say that JFK had passed them at the time of the first shot.

Thanks for telling us all about what John Chism was percieving.
Maybe you should give him a call and let him know as well.

All five witnesses - Templin, Brandt, Newman, Burney and Dishong - report that the limo/JFK had passed their position by the time of the first shot.
Four of the five make unequivocal statements regarding this.
In Reply#1245 you try to deal with this latest disaster for your own theory. But there's no need, your theory died long before this.
You accept Templin and Brandt's statements as you can try to brush them off with the 30+ years schtick. But a look at Speer's website, at the sheer volume of their statements and the incredible detail in them, shows they are not so easily brushed off.
As for the other three - Newman, Burney and Dishong - your attempts to twist their statements to your own needs is so bizarre it's disturbing.
As I say, you don't need to try so hard. You can let go now.

JEAN NEWMAN:
"I was standing right on this side of the Stemmons Freeway sign, about halfway between the sign and the edge of the building on the corner… The motorcade had just passed me when I heard something that I thought was a firecracker at first, and the President had just passed me, because after he had just passed, there was a loud report, it just scared me, and I noticed that the President jumped, he sort of ducked his head down, and I thought at the time that it probably scared him too."


"The motorcade had just passed me"
"...the President had just passed me, because after he had just passed me, there was a loud report..."

These are unequivocal statements.
JFK had passed her position when the first shot rang out. There is no other (reasonable) way to interpret these statements.
You say you don't know what "just" means. It doesn't matter. Newman is saying JFK had passed her position at the time of the first shot.
"Just" indicates that he had only passed her position by a short distance when she heard the first shot. But it doesn't matter what the distance is, all that matters is that JFK had passed her position at the time of the first shot.
That's it.

PEGGY BURNEY:
"When the President's car made the curve around the corner, he was smiling and waving...he was happy and Jackie was happy and smiling as they passed. The car had passed about 15 feet beyond me when I heard the first shot. I did not realize it was a shot; I thought it was a backfire. The President ducked; instinctively I told myself 'something is happening,' but nobody knew what."

"The car had passed about 15 feet beyond me when I heard the first shot."
Again, this is an unequivocal statement. I literally can't break this statement down into a simpler form. The limo carrying JFK had passed her position at the time of the first shot. It wasn't in front of her, or yet to pass her - it had already passed.
Your attempts to re-interpret this statement are truly bizarre. I would urge the reader to check out Reply#1245.
There is no (reasonable) way to interpret this statement as anything other than what it is - an unequivocal statement that the limo carrying JFK had passed her position at the time of the first shot.

JUNE DISHONG:
"His arm in the air waving… He drops his arm as they go by, possibly 20 feet. Suddenly--a sound. Gun shots? So hard to tell above the clamor of the crowd. The president bent forward into his wife’s lap as his arm slipped off the side of the car. Jackie circled him with her arm. Another shot. Panic among the people. Woman with children. Parents pushing them to the ground. No one knows where the shots are coming from. A cry. The President has been shot. A third shot, people scatter. I can't believe what I have seen.

"He drops his arm as they go by, possibly 20 feet. Suddenly--a sound. Gun shots?"
Of the three statements, this is the only one that is not crystal clear.
But I will have to highlight your attempt to re-interpret this statement as it shows how devious you can be with witness statements. You wrote:

"She [Dishong] said the first shot occurred "as they go by". That does not necessarily mean it was after JFK had passed her position."

Dishong did not say the first shot occurred "as they go by". This is a complete falsehood on your behalf.
Dishong clearly states that JFK "drops his arm as they go by". He has finished waving to the crowd and his arm drops as he passes Dishong's position.
After this there is a gunshot.
Her statement, in the context of the witness statements of those stood by her, should be read as follows:
After waving at the crowds to his right, JFK lowers his hand as he passes Dishong's position, after which she hears the first shot. Her mention of "possibly 20 ft" must refer to the distance of JFK/limo past her position at the time of the first shot.

Which brings us to another point. These various statements should be read together. They corroborate each other and form an interlocking matrix of information.
Your attempts to nit-pick each statement individually only reveals a certain desperation.

Just let go.

[John Iacoletti]

I agree that the women in the Darnell clip are Jacob, Holt, and Simmons. That, however, doesn’t make them the same people as the figures in the Z film.

[Walt Cakebread]

His left hand has fractionally moved upwards, towards his chest. It is down by his side as he passes behind the Stemmons sign and it is in the same position, down by his side, when he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign in z224. In z225 there is the first hint of the movement that will have his left arm rocketing up to an incredibly extreme physical position.
The pic on the left below shows JFK's left arm position at z183, before he passes behind the Stemmons sign. The pic on the right shows the left arm in the same position after he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign, in z224.



From the resting position, down at his side, JFK's left arm suddenly rockets upwards into a really extreme physical position. His elbows are extended upwards to, what appears to be, their fullest extent. I would urge any reader of this to replicate this position to get an idea of how extreme it is. Even more extreme is the amount of time it takes his left arm to go from a resting position into this extreme posture - it is a fraction of a second.
It is surely a rapid reflex reaction to damage caused directly to the central nervous system by the bullet that transits through JFK's neck. JFK's reaction to this shot is quite startling - his hands clench into fists which he jams under his chin area as his elbows fly up in the air in quite an extraordinary fashion, his whole upper body becoming temporarily rigid before relaxing slightly. It is a really extreme and rapid reaction:



It really is an extraordinary and profound reaction. There can be little argument it is a reaction to being shot. The pic below shows how extreme the reaction is:



This pic is from z232. As we have seen, at z224 JFK's left arm is down by his side yet at z232, half a second later his left elbow is thrust up to what appears to be it's maximum extension (as I say, try replicating this position, I know I can get my left elbow barely any higher than JFK's and that's really trying).
Half a second to get his left elbow from a resting postion at his side to, what I am assuming is, it's maximum extension. Trying to do this with a conscious effort is barely possible but in JFK's case, this is done from a resting position with no expectation that this reaction will be happening. From a completely relaxed state to rigidity in less than half a second.

So when does this extreme reaction begin?:

In the clip below (z224-226) we see his left hand still resting on his stomach area, his left elbow down by his side but obscured by the top of the limo door (z224). In the next frame there is a slight movement of his left arm and hand (z225). In the final frame his elbow comes into view from behind the limo door, his hand clearly moving to his throat (z226):



It is clear from the above frames that this extreme movement of JFK's left arm can be seen most obviously in z226, when his left elbow, which has been hidden from view by the limo door up to this point, suddenly comes into view. We can say with little doubt that JFK's extreme reaction has begun by z226. I believe there is a first hint of movement seen in z225.

The Z-film shows an extraordinary and extreme reaction to being shot. It begins at z225. Before this point in the film there is nothing - absolutely nothing - that even hints at such an extreme reaction. As JFK begins his last wave he turns and smiles towards the people to his right. His finishes waving and is bringing his hand back down and turning slightly forward as he passes behind the sign. Perfectly normal actions. His left arm is down by his side for, what may well be, the duration of the Z-film from z133 to z225. Within less than half a second his left elbow rockets up from a relaxed position down by his side to it's maximum extension. I believe it is a reflex reaction to a massive trauma of the Brachial Plexus - the nerves that control function of the arms and hands - that the bullet is known to have passed through.
Whatever the case, there is nothing in the Z-film that is remotely comparable to the extreme reaction to being hit by the first shot prior to z224. Arguments about slight head turns or what might have gone on behind the sign are redundant as we get to see the full extent of JFK's reaction by monitoring the position of his left arm.
IT IS ALL SHOWN IN THE Z-FILM.

Ultimately, you are correct - JFK's left arm does show a sight movement in z225.
But I'd already pointed that out.

Again, I'd already pointed that out.
Thanks for agreeing though.

We can say with little doubt that JFK's extreme reaction has begun by z226. I believe there is a first hint of movement seen in z225.

You are right, JFK had started to react to being shot as is seen in frame 225.     But humans don't react instantly  ....so he had to have been hit by a bullet a second or two prior to z225.....or about z200.

[Dan O'meara]

I agree that the women in the Darnell clip are Jacobs, Holt, and Simmons. That, however, doesn’t make them the same people as the figures in the Z film.

Obviously, just because you agree about the identification of the women in the Darnell clip (for whatever random reason), that doesn't make them the same women in the Z-film.