On The Trail Of Delusion

[John Mytton]

"I'm not a conspiracy theorist."

Hahaha

It reminds me of a point made by Bugliosi in the 1986 Oswald trial, where he says that Spence makes accusations that the CIA covered up this or the FBI covered up that and if they were the ones covering up then they would be the ones who murdered the President but Bugliosi explains that Spence won't come out and say it because it would just sound downright silly and you would just laugh at him.
But Iacoletti has gone far beyond those two organisations and he includes the Dallas Police, innocent civilians, Photographic experts, handwriting experts and a bunch of others who all lied or deliberately misinterpreted and made false conclusions based on the evidence in the attempt to convict Oswald.

@27:08

JohnM

[Paul May]

I suppose Eisenhower's farewell address that included the warning about the MIC did not have one shared of evidence, but it did have a resonance for many Americans of what they roughly believed was going on within the halls of power Sure it was important because he was the President but certain statements that are not necessarily supported by facts can have these type of resonant truths

Eisenhower, as a former 5* General and two term POTUS had enormous credibility with America. JFK, not so much. He campaigned on the phony missile gap with Russia telling Americans to build bomb shelters in their homes while building America’s military strength to outrageous size at the time. Eisenhower’s warning to Americans was more about JFK and his agenda than the MIC specifically.

[Fred Litwin]

Did Richard Case Nagell Ever Meet Lee Harvey Oswald?
He claimed to have met Oswald in Japan, Texas, Mexico City and New Orleans. There is not one iota of evidence to support this.

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-richard-case-nagell-ever-meet-lee-harvey-oswald

[David Von Pein]

Excerpt from Vince Bugliosi's book (re: Richard Nagell):

---------------------------------------------

"On January 3, 1967, Nagell got off a letter to U.S. Senator Richard Russell
in which he talked about Oswald coming under his scrutiny in 1962
and 1963. He proceeds to tell Russell that Oswald had no significant
contact with pro-Castro elements, or Marxist or racist groups, et cetera,
nor was Oswald "an agent or informant, in the generally accepted sense
of the words, for any investigative, police, or intelligence agency, domestic
or foreign."

He continued that Oswald was part of a conspiracy to murder
Kennedy that had nothing to do with a foreign government. He
concludes, "For what little it is apparently worth now, my opinion is
that the death of President Kennedy was indirectly, if not directly,
resultant from a conspiracy and also due in great part to the
stupidity or negligence of the FBI; that Mr. Oswald definitely was the
only assassin; and that his own demise was not attributable to any
conspiracy of which I was cognizant." (DOJCD Record 186-10001-10118)

Using Nagell's own words, he seems to be indirectly removing
himself from consideration by conspiracy theorists as being a player
on their field. But Nagell remained, and remains, a fixture in the
conspiracy firmament.

If there was anyone who had a wilder imagination about the
assassination than Richard Nagell, it was New Orleans DA Jim Garrison,
whose looney, conspiratorial theories knew no boundaries. As indicated
earlier in this endnote, in his investigation of Clay Shaw for the
murder of President Kennedy, Garrison actually flew to New York City
in May 1968. He met with Nagell on a park bench in Central Park,
hoping Nagell would help break the case wide open for him. (What a
conversation it must have been between someone almost certifiably
psychotic [Nagell] and someone [Garrison] symptomatically psychotic.)

But, for Garrison, Nagell answered very few questions and was
deliberately evasive, except to say, without providing any supporting
evidence, that Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, and David Ferrie were behind
the assassination and had manipulated Oswald.

Nagell also refused to discuss the CIA (the conspiratorial
devil behind the assassination in Garrison's eyes) or any other
federal agency except that he claimed he was ignored by the FBI when
he tried to warn them of Kennedy's assassination.

Nagell, wanting to testify, flew to New Orleans on his own
before the Shaw trial in 1969, but Garrison never called him to the
stand, not only because he had nothing to say, but also because, per
Garrison, "by the time [Shaw's attorneys] finished with Nagell, the
jury would have been left with the impression of a
crackpot" (Garrison, On the Trail of the Assassins, pp.213-216, 267).

When one is a crackpot even in the eyes of someone as screwy
and erratic as Jim Garrison, it's time for that person to go home.

A footnote to the Nagell story: The ARRB sent Nagell a letter
dated October 31, 1995, requesting that he contact the board to
discuss any documents or evidence he might have in his possession
relating to the assassination (e.g., Nagell told Russell he had a
Polaroid photograph of himself and Oswald in New Orleans, that he had
documentary proof of the letter he allegedly sent to the FBI in
September of 1963 warning of Kennedy's death, etc.). The ARRB learned
that Nagell died (from natural causes) in his Los Angeles apartment on
November 1, 1995. A member of the ARRB staff, with the assistance of
Nagell's son and niece, searched his apartment, and footlockers of his
kept in storage in Phoenix, and found none of the items Nagell claimed
he had. (Final Report of the ARRB, p.133)" -- VINCENT BUGLIOSI; PAGES
700-701 OF "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F.
KENNEDY" (ENDNOTES ON CD)(c.2007)

[John Iacoletti]

I humbly apologize John, yes, intelligence is required to create a theory.

No, just an active imagination.

[John Iacoletti]

But Iacoletti has gone far beyond those two organisations and he includes the Dallas Police, innocent civilians, Photographic experts, handwriting experts and a bunch of others who all lied or deliberately misinterpreted and made false conclusions based on the evidence in the attempt to convict Oswald.

I never said anything remotely similar to that.  If you have to make up stuff, then you've already lost.

[Walt Cakebread]

Excerpt from Vince Bugliosi's book (re: Richard Nagell):

---------------------------------------------

"On January 3, 1967, Nagell got off a letter to U.S. Senator Richard Russell
in which he talked about Oswald coming under his scrutiny in 1962
and 1963. He proceeds to tell Russell that Oswald had no significant
contact with pro-Castro elements, or Marxist or racist groups, et cetera,
nor was Oswald "an agent or informant, in the generally accepted sense
of the words, for any investigative, police, or intelligence agency, domestic
or foreign."

He continued that Oswald was part of a conspiracy to murder
Kennedy that had nothing to do with a foreign government. He
concludes, "For what little it is apparently worth now, my opinion is
that the death of President Kennedy was indirectly, if not directly,
resultant from a conspiracy and also due in great part to the
stupidity or negligence of the FBI; that Mr. Oswald definitely was the
only assassin; and that his own demise was not attributable to any
conspiracy of which I was cognizant." (DOJCD Record 186-10001-10118)

Using Nagell's own words, he seems to be indirectly removing
himself from consideration by conspiracy theorists as being a player
on their field. But Nagell remained, and remains, a fixture in the
conspiracy firmament.

If there was anyone who had a wilder imagination about the
assassination than Richard Nagell, it was New Orleans DA Jim Garrison,
whose looney, conspiratorial theories knew no boundaries. As indicated
earlier in this endnote, in his investigation of Clay Shaw for the
murder of President Kennedy, Garrison actually flew to New York City
in May 1968. He met with Nagell on a park bench in Central Park,
hoping Nagell would help break the case wide open for him. (What a
conversation it must have been between someone almost certifiably
psychotic [Nagell] and someone [Garrison] symptomatically psychotic.)

But, for Garrison, Nagell answered very few questions and was
deliberately evasive, except to say, without providing any supporting
evidence, that Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, and David Ferrie were behind
the assassination and had manipulated Oswald.

Nagell also refused to discuss the CIA (the conspiratorial
devil behind the assassination in Garrison's eyes) or any other
federal agency except that he claimed he was ignored by the FBI when
he tried to warn them of Kennedy's assassination.

Nagell, wanting to testify, flew to New Orleans on his own
before the Shaw trial in 1969, but Garrison never called him to the
stand, not only because he had nothing to say, but also because, per
Garrison, "by the time [Shaw's attorneys] finished with Nagell, the
jury would have been left with the impression of a
crackpot" (Garrison, On the Trail of the Assassins, pp.213-216, 267).

When one is a crackpot even in the eyes of someone as screwy
and erratic as Jim Garrison, it's time for that person to go home.

A footnote to the Nagell story: The ARRB sent Nagell a letter
dated October 31, 1995, requesting that he contact the board to
discuss any documents or evidence he might have in his possession
relating to the assassination (e.g., Nagell told Russell he had a
Polaroid photograph of himself and Oswald in New Orleans, that he had
documentary proof of the letter he allegedly sent to the FBI in
September of 1963 warning of Kennedy's death, etc.). The ARRB learned
that Nagell died (from natural causes) in his Los Angeles apartment on
November 1, 1995. A member of the ARRB staff, with the assistance of
Nagell's son and niece, searched his apartment, and footlockers of his
kept in storage in Phoenix, and found none of the items Nagell claimed
he had. (Final Report of the ARRB, p.133)" -- VINCENT BUGLIOSI; PAGES
700-701 OF "RECLAIMING HISTORY: THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F.
KENNEDY" (ENDNOTES ON CD)(c.2007)

He (R.C. Nagell) continued that Oswald was part of a conspiracy to murder
Kennedy ---------------------------------. He concludes, "For what little it is apparently worth now, my opinion is
that the death of President Kennedy was indirectly, if not directly, resultant from a conspiracy and also due in great part to the
stupidity or negligence of the FBI;-------------
Mr. Oswald definitely was the only assassin; and that his own demise was not attributable to any conspiracy of which I was cognizant."

Would someone please clarify the gibberish above..... 

The way I read it...... Nagell thought that Lee Oswald was part of a conspiracy to murder JFK .....  But Lee Oswald definitely  was the only assassin .....   and the other conspirators had nothing to do with the lynching of Oswald.    IOW... Oswald's partners in the crime weren't at all worried that Lee would reveal their identities.   

If Lee was part of a conspiracy .....Then he sure as hell wasn't a lone assassin!     And If he was part of a conspiracy then his partners would surely want to kill him ASAP.....

[Tom Scully]

Sigh! Sometimes I feel like "the invisible man" of the JFK Assassination "Research" "community".
Example: I became aware only 12 hours ago of the recent passing of Priscilla. In the reactions to her death I've since read, none of my unique discoveries of her associations or background are mentioned,
The fact that despite the last person reported to have seen Priscilla's father, Stuart Johnson alive in 1969
happened to be Allen Dulles's cousin, James Augustus Thomas, Priscilla told the HSCA in 1978 that completion of her book was delayed partly because of her upset in reaction to her father's "concealed suicide"...

https://archive.is/esTuB
....
https://archive.is/o/esTuB/www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=95330&relPageId=42

...

...not even the fact that Priscilla arranged for Marina to be shielded from media inquiry in anticipation of imminent release of the WC Report from Sept. to Dec., 1964, by.... wait for it...



Priscilla's CIA agent cousin, David C. Davenport, and his friend and possible cousin, Jerome Allen Hasty, the two who were sued by Hasty's step-daughter, JoAnn McAdams for abducting her just months later, in July, 1965, and my discovery that JoAnn McAdams was first cousin of
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Clifford
...and, in her lawsuit against Davenport, Hasty, et al, JoAnn described Hasty as the spouse of her mother,



https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/35602601/
Click on OCR link on the page to display page text.
"...Huge suit filed  A suit has been filed in the First Judicial District court by Miss Joanne McAdams of Santa Fe asking for damages in the amount of 390,000,000....David Davenport. Diana Kerner, Perez Roybal, New Mexico Slate Hospital, and the Santa Fc County. Miss Me Adams, who is not represented by an attorney in the suit relates in the complaint that she had come to Santa Fe to visit her mother, Mrs. Marguerite McAdams Hasty, and her mother's husband, Jerome Hasty, and David Davenport, a friend of Hasty, induced her to consult Dr. Roscnbaum. As a result, she claims, the sheriff of Sazita Fc County, Perez Roybal, arrested her without a warrant and she was transported lo the-State Hospital at Las- Vegas, where she \vas incaceratcd from July 28, 1965 to August 15,..."



One of two photos of Hasty that Priscilla herself released to news media in 2013.:



(In 1966, Hasty legally changed his name to Hastings.)

Marguerite Bowman McAdams, who happened to be Clark Clifford's aunt and the sister-in-law of the ten year long employer of James D. Phelan at the Alton Telegraph newspaper,
http://jfkforum.com/images/ClarkCliffordObitAltonTelegraphUncle.jpg
especially interesting because Pat "Patsy" Lambert of David Lifton association, is later described as James Phelan's cousin and his spokesperson.

https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/12/19/18338723.php
Deadly Corruption in Probate Court - 2006/12/19
Dec 19, 2006 — "My mother, Dr. Amalie Phelan, first visited Attorney Horspool in the ... Family friend and journalist Patricia Lambert had flown in from ..."

David Lifton insisted both Marina and Priscilla were credible in all of his exchanges with them.

BWDIK ? Some will reasonably dismiss my complaints here as the whining of an attention seeker but consider that I haven't posted in months, I'm rarely inaccurate in my claims and when I find that I am, I admit it and correct ASAP. Just ask Mark O'Blazney, LOL.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/articles/dovey-roundtree-spins-her-search-for-vivian
...Jim would like to credit the above discoveries and inconsistencies about Roundtree to JFK researcher Tom Scully and a poster at Let's Roll Forums who calls himself Culto.

Last modified on Monday, 06 July 2020 16:30

Consider that Dick Russell is the author of the intro to Mary's Mosaic, Peter Janney's failed book, and of the intro in the late author Albarelli's book, "Coup in Dallas" scheduled for release on Amazon's site on November 16, and that author Russell claimed to have obtained coherent responses to questions he posed to Robert E. Webster in a long term care facility in New Bedford, MA, just after another researcher described Webster as in an unresponsive, "vegetative state".   Link

Invisible, because I've been buried in BS by BS-ers

Walt is either impaired, mendacious, or one is overlapping the other. Consider my comment to Walt (I underlined his name in red) at the bottom of the image of a page found early in Dick Russell's revised edition of "TMWKTM".

When Dick Russell published his book The Man Who Knew Too Much  we learned that Richard Case Nagell had dispatched ( murdered) a man who was using the name Lee Oswald on September (20 ?) 1963.   Nagell had been ordered to find "Oswald" and snuff him.....   And he did.    He removed papers and ID from the dead man and among the ID cards was a copy of a card that Lee Oswald had in his possession on 11 /22/63.  The card was a "uniformed Services Identification card " bearing the number N 4, 271,617.   The card that Lee had in his possession bore a photo of Lee Oswald...But the card that Nagell removed from the body of the impostor had a different photo.

The card is linked to Oswald, per the assassination investigation and Tippit murder investigation. The only evidence linking same or similar card to Nagell is a photocopy of unknown provenance.
......

I'd love to discuss the card with you, but this is not the thread for that.....

This is "the thread" in which BSers BS, (distract) the readers, as happens in almost every thread of this forum. You presented unsupported BS.

In the recent past, Fred Litwin has consistently ignored my several attempts to engage him in debate, but he obviously has time to waste engaging Walt.