The Book Depository as a Potemkin Village

[Jerry Freeman]

In short, the villains here were not Oswald's co-workers, but Warren Commission Counsel Joseph Ball and David Belin, who were determined to make it look as though Oswald was the assassin, and ignore or smear anyone, e.g. Eddie Piper and Vickie Adams, who presented a problem.

Charles Givens was produced in secret and his perjury laced testimony was introduced...saying he saw Oswald on the 6th floor right before the assassination. Still ignored by the Oswald did it crowd...it is proven here that this was all just a blatant lie-----
 https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1960.msg53015.html#msg53015

[Pat Speer]

Hi Pat,..... I believe that you are one of the best researchers on the forum.   I  don't always agree with you but I respect your opinion.

In this case I'm a bit surprised that you would give any credibility to Jack Dougherty.    His testimony is such a confusing mess that I don't know how you can give solid credence to anything he said.    Particularly with regard to his location at the time the shots were fired....and his operation of the elevator.

To be clear, I don't simply go along with Dougherty's testimony. He was undoubtedly confused. And Ball, undoubtedly, did his best to confuse him.

The keys to understanding Dougherty's actions after the shooting were, for the most part, there before he testified.

1. His early statements were consistent in that he went back to work 10 minutes or so AFTER 12:30, the time of the shooting.
2. Truly testified that he saw Dougherty on the fifth floor as he descended from the roof.
3. Dougherty said he was on the fifth floor BEFORE he heard the loud sound. And that he came down just afterwards.
4. He said the loud sound came from above him--the location of the elevator shaft and roof hatch--and not the east end of the building--the location of the sniper's nest window, which was just above an open window on the fifth floor.
5. Norman, Jarman and Wiliiams failed to see Dougherty on the fifth floor in the immediate aftermath of the shooting.
6. Dougherty failed to see Norman, Jarman and Williams in the immediate aftermath of the shooting.
7. Dougherty claimed he was standing by the west elevator when he heard the loud sound. IF the loud sound was Oswald firing the last of three shots, and Oswald raced downstairs just after, he would have to have passed within 20-30 feet of Dougherty across an open floor. And yet, Dougherty claimed he didn't see him.
8. The most logical solution then is that Dougherty went upstairs after the shooting via the west elevator, which someone other than Dougherty brought down from one of the top floors while Baker and Truly ran up.

[Pat Speer]

Charles Givens was produced in secret and his perjury laced testimony was introduced...saying he saw Oswald on the 6th floor right before the assassination. Still ignored by the Oswald did it crowd...it is proven here that this was all just a blatant lie-----
 https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1960.msg53015.html#msg53015

This is discussed in great detail in Chapter 4 at patspeer.com, Pinning the Tale on the Oswald. Beyond Givens' testimony, I demonstrate that Warren Commission Counsel continued to lie about Givens' testimony for the rest of his life--which leaves one with the impression Belin knew damn well that Givens lied, and that he, the Great David Belin, had suborned perjury.

[Pat Speer]

For me, the most scandalous aspect of the WC testimonies is the questioning of Jack Dougherty. Charles Givens and Bonnie Ray Williams testify to being on the sixth floor before the shooting and both are grilled endlessly about what they saw and did whilst up there - question after question after question about even the most inane points until every detail has been squeezed out of them about their time on the sixth floor.
Dougherty testifies to being on the sixth floor just before and just after the shooting. Hear is the full extent of the questioning of this absolutely key witness:

"Mr. BALL - Did you see anybody on the sixth floor when you were there, before you went to the fifth floor?"

This single question is it. It's outrageous.
Dougherty goes into his Dumb and Dumber routine:

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes; I did.
Mr. BALL - Who?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, there was Bill Shelley, Billy Lovelady---
Mr. BALL - That was in the morning, wasn't it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - That wasn't after lunch, was it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir.

Now that Ball has cleared this 'misunderstanding' up he should repeat his original question - Did you see anyone on the sixth floor when you were up there? But he doesn't:

Mr. BALL - After lunch, did you ever see them on the sixth floor?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No, sir; I didn't.

Instead of asking Dougherty if he saw anyone suspicious on the sixth floor when he was up there, Ball asks if he'd seen Shelley, Lovealdy and co. after lunch. There is no reason to ask this question, nobody at any time had suggested they were up there and Dougherty has an easy out.
It's utter 
But that's not the worst of it - Dougherty's alibi is also utter  .
He says he was on the fifth floor at the time of the shooting but this is blown out of the water by the testimonies of Jarman, Norman and Williams. Jarman and Norman were out front then decided to watch the motorcade from the fifth floor minutes before it arrived. They go up to the fifth in the north-west elevators and cross the fifth floor towards the south-east of the building. They do not see Dougherty.
Williams comes down from the sixth floor to the fifth, he also uses the north-west elevators, he too crosses the length of the building towards the south-east corner and he too does not see Dougherty.
After the shooting all three men cross from the east to the west side of the building and at no time do they see Dougherty.
Dougherty has no alibi but this is never considered in the WC questioning.
One should conclude that Dougherty was on the sixth before, during and after the shooting.
I would go as far as to suggest Dougherty is Arnold Rowland's "man with the rifle"
I would go as far to suggest that Dougherty is the shooter and that the WC covered it up.

When I read statements from people suspecting Dougherty's involvement, I always shake my head, and assume they have never worked in a warehouse. I have. The backbone of a successful warehouse operation is almost always someone like Dougherty--a slightly-challenged person who would have trouble in most workplaces, but has found his niche at the warehouse, and is so grateful to have a job there he will show up early, work late, skip lunches etc.

Dougherty was the backbone of the TSBD. He was liked, but basically a loner. He ate lunch by himself, saw a ruckus in the building, was confused as to what was going on, and went back to work, only to hear a loud sound, come downstairs, and talk with Piper.

In one of his earliest statements, Bill Shelley said he talked to Dougherty after the shooting. Ball/Belin never asked him about this, at least not on the record.

In Dougherty's testimony, he said he talked to Piper after hearing the loud sound. And yet Ball/Belin never asked Piper about this on the record, even though they'd created a memo insisting that this question needed to be asked.

Well, there was a reason for this. Witnesses such as Dougherty, Piper, and Adams, were inconvenient witnesses to the "story" pushed by Ball and Belin, and were essentially silenced by them.

[Walt Cakebread]

To be clear, I don't simply go along with Dougherty's testimony. He was undoubtedly confused. And Ball, undoubtedly, did his best to confuse him.

The keys to understanding Dougherty's actions after the shooting were, for the most part, there before he testified.

1. His early statements were consistent in that he went back to work 10 minutes or so AFTER 12:30, the time of the shooting.
2. Truly testified that he saw Dougherty on the fifth floor as he descended from the roof.
3. Dougherty said he was on the fifth floor BEFORE he heard the loud sound. And that he came down just afterwards.
4. He said the loud sound came from above him--the location of the elevator shaft and roof hatch--and not the east end of the building--the location of the sniper's nest window, which was just above an open window on the fifth floor.
5. Norman, Jarman and Wiliiams failed to see Dougherty on the fifth floor in the immediate aftermath of the shooting.
6. Dougherty failed to see Norman, Jarman and Williams in the immediate aftermath of the shooting.
7. Dougherty claimed he was standing by the west elevator when he heard the loud sound. IF the loud sound was Oswald firing the last of three shots, and Oswald raced downstairs just after, he would have to have passed within 20-30 feet of Dougherty across an open floor. And yet, Dougherty claimed he didn't see him.
8. The most logical solution then is that Dougherty went upstairs after the shooting via the west elevator, which someone other than Dougherty brought down from one of the top floors while Baker and Truly ran up.

3. Dougherty said he was on the fifth floor BEFORE he heard the loud sound. And that he came down just afterwards.
4. He said the loud sound came from above him--the location of the elevator shaft and roof hatch--and not the east end of the building--the location of the sniper's nest window, which was just above an open window on the fifth floor.

Most witnesses said that the FIRST shot was the loudest..... ( If all shots were fired from the same site, all three shots sound have sounded alike, and the sounds of the shots should have been no different.)

IMO...There were NO shots fired from the TSBD.....  At least there were no shots fired from the staged crime scene "sniper's nest".... (There may possibly have been a shot fired from the WEST end of the sixth floor which would be the shot that drew Howard Brennan's attention to the man with the 'high powered ",  ie HUNTING  rifle. )

[Zeon Mason]

Walt, It was Arnold Rowland was it not?, witnessing a man in the SW 6th floor window of TSBD with a rifle that Rowland thought resembled a 30.06 hunting rifle with a a large scope

[Mark A. Oblazney]

I wonder what's the matter with Mssr. Gilbride?  I hope he's gonna be ok, don't you?  The 'UFO'  is coming soon, and it is entirely made from us.

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt, It was Arnold Rowland was it not?, witnessing a man in the SW 6th floor window of TSBD with a rifle that Rowland thought resembled a 30.06 hunting rifle with a a large scope

Yes, Zeon, you're right in saying that Rowland saw a man with a high powered hunting rifle behind a window at the WEST end of the sixth floor.   BUT.... If you read Howard Brennan's affidavit which he gave at about 1:30 that afternoon you should be able to discern that Brennan was describing the location where he saw the man "AIMING" a rifle out of a sixth floor window.  Brennan said the man was STANDING and aiming a HIGH POWERED  ( ie; a HUNTING rifle, not a military rifle)  out of the window.  There is no way in hell that a man could have stood behind the so called "Sniper's Nest" window and fired down onto Elm street, ( The lower sash of the window would have prevented that act)   However a man could easily have STOOD behind the WEST end window and aimed a rifle down toward the triple underpass. 

Brennan and Rowland saw the same man, at different times, at the WEST end of the sixth floor...... And BOTH B &R said the man had a HUNTING rifle....  ( Brennan called it a "high powered rifle".