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Author Topic: Then went inside with the curtain rods  (Read 118498 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #104 on: January 27, 2021, 07:56:12 PM »
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Funny how Dougherty seems to be the only person that Bill Shelley ever told this story to...

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #104 on: January 27, 2021, 07:56:12 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #105 on: January 27, 2021, 08:20:55 PM »
Funny how Dougherty seems to be the only person that Bill Shelley ever told this story to...

Not so funny.....   Or maybe we have different sense of what's funny.


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #106 on: January 27, 2021, 08:46:35 PM »
No, Frazier saw Oswald go into the door into the north annex area.  It was not the same door that was in view of Dougherty.  And Frazier was so far behind Oswald at the time that he couldn't actually see that Oswald still had the flimsy 2-foot bag with him at the time.

"Flimsy" That's how Buell Frazier describes the brown paper that was used to manufacture the paper bag that Lee carried.  I think I know the paper that Frazier was referring to, and if it's the paper that I'm thinking of, then Lee had good reason to cup the sack in his hands that damp rainy morning......  ( He was concerned that his lunch might fall out the bottom, and he didn't like mud sandwiches)   

OOOPs I didn't finish.....   Who can explain the contradiction between Buell Frazier, ( who said that Lee was carrying a flimsy paper bag as he approached the door to the loading dock) and  Jack Dougherty, who said he was certain that Lee was not carrying anything in his hands when he entered the shipping room at the back door)    Those two doors are about 35 feet apart...   Is it possible that the flimsey paper bag started to fall apart and Lee simply put his sandwich and apple in his Jacket pocket ?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 09:01:13 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #106 on: January 27, 2021, 08:46:35 PM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #107 on: January 28, 2021, 05:13:27 AM »
I don’t see why any statement Will Fritz claims Oswald made, should be accepted as truth

This the guy that couldn’t find any way to record what was said. When there were following available options

1. Tom Aleya with a motion camera
2. A dictabelt
3. A reel to reel tape recorder
3. A court stenographer
4. A secretary who could use shorthand
5.reliable attorney(s) with good reputation to be present with their own recording devices and secretary note takers

Instead, Fritz got a call from LBJ and then Fritz chose the worst possible way to record for history what Oswald had to say.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #108 on: January 28, 2021, 04:17:00 PM »
Well given Fritz's apparent propensity to threaten people he was interrogating, I'm sure the lack of recording was deliberate.

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #108 on: January 28, 2021, 04:17:00 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #109 on: January 28, 2021, 05:11:02 PM »
Well given Fritz's apparent propensity to threaten people he was interrogating, I'm sure the lack of recording was deliberate.

Well that was standard operating procedure (SOP) in Fritz' homicide division.....and many admired the way he operated.  Henry Wade for one...And J.E Hoover was also an admirer ...Hoover was said to have proclaimed that he liked the way  those fellas down there in Dallas operated.


Online Richard Smith

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #110 on: January 28, 2021, 07:24:55 PM »
Perhaps Mr "Smith" should review Jack Dougherty's testimony......Dougherty was definite...He said that Lee was NOT carrying a long paper sack or any parcel when he entered the back door of the shipping room that morning.   As I recall Dougherty's words were a bit odd ...  When he was being badgered by the lawyer (Ball ?) who was trying to trick him into saying that he had seen a package in Lee's hands, He said something like  "Well if he did I couldn't see it".  And then the Lawyer ( Ball?)  tried again by saying are you sure or are you guessing?....Whereupon Dougherty said that he DEFINITELY saw that Lee wasn't carrying anything.   

Mr. BALL - Now, is that a very definite impression that you saw him that morning when he came to work?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, oh--it's like this--I'll try to explain it to you this way--- you see, I was sitting on the wrapping table and when he came in the door, I just caught him out of the corner of my eye---that's the reason why I said it that way.
Mr. BALL - Did he come in with anybody?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - He was alone?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; he was alone.
Mr. BALL - Do you recall him having anything in his hand?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't see anything, if he did.
Mr. BALL - Did you pay enough attention to him, you think, that you would remember whether he did or didn't?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I believe I can---yes, sir---I'll put it this way; I didn't see anything in his hands at the time.
Mr. BALL - In other words, your memory is definite on that is it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - In other words, you would say positively he had nothing in his hands?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I would say that---yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - Or, are you guessing?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I don't think so.

Imagine a contrarian CTer applying their usual standard of proof to that testimony.  Dougherty was anything but definitive on the topic and don't you often question aspects of his testimony and imply he was involved in the conspiracy?  LOL. There is no doubt that Frazier confirmed that Oswald carried a long package into the building that morning. 

Mr. BALL - Did he have anything in his hands or arms?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, not that I could see of.

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, oh--it's like this--I'll try to explain it to you this way--- you see, I was sitting on the wrapping table and when he came in the door, I just caught him out of the corner of my eye---that's the reason why I said it that way.


Mr. BALL - Do you recall him having anything in his hand?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't see anything, if he did.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 08:25:39 PM by Richard Smith »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #111 on: January 28, 2021, 07:49:49 PM »
LOL. There is no doubt that Frazier confirmed that Oswald carried a long package into the building that morning. 

LOL.

Frazier didn't see Oswald enter the building -- he saw him enter the annex area.  Also:

Tom Meros: And when he walked on ahead of you could you even see the package?
Buell Frazier:  No
Tom Meros: Unless you knew it was there, you wouldn't know what to look for.  You wouldn't even know that he had a package in his hand.
Buell Frazier: That is correct.


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #111 on: January 28, 2021, 07:49:49 PM »