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Author Topic: LHO's shirt  (Read 52385 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2021, 09:27:07 PM »
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I do not subscribe to the LN theory but have no way of knowing the extent if any of LHO’s involvement in any covert operation run by god knows who, that day in Dallas.

Was he an intelligence asset and to what extent was he aware of the planned covert operation to assassinate JFK?

He could have:

   •   No knowledge of any covert operation
   •   Knowledge of a covert operation  that did not involve the assassination of JFK (i.e. he had been fed disinformation about what was going to happen)
   •   Knowledge of a covert operation that planned to assassinate JFK

I have no way of knowing what the answer to that question is.

One thing puzzles me about the framing of LHO for the assassination.

If I am going to set him up as the patsy then I can incriminate him by placing the Mannlicher rifle amongst the boxes on the 6th floor of the TSBD and the shells on the floor of the SN. What I must also do is ensure that he does not have an alibi for the time of the shooting.

Mr Pilgrim, I share your agnosticism as to Mr Oswald's ultimate role in the assassination, if any. It is quite possible that Mr Oswald was a knowing confederate in the plot to kill JFK.

As for the issue you raise here, it has a simple enough explanation: Mr Oswald was not being set up as an actual shooter. That (absurd) idea only came to life after the assassination, when the entire 'investigation' was geared to that conclusion.

We must treat the assassination conspiracy and the cover-up conspiracy as two distinct (if possibly overlapping) things.

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2021, 09:27:07 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2021, 09:56:19 PM »
Mr Pilgrim, I share your agnosticism as to Mr Oswald's ultimate role in the assassination, if any. It is quite possible that Mr Oswald was a knowing confederate in the plot to kill JFK.

As for the issue you raise here, it has a simple enough explanation: Mr Oswald was not being set up as an actual shooter. That (absurd) idea only came to life after the assassination, when the entire 'investigation' was geared to that conclusion.

We must treat the assassination conspiracy and the cover-up conspiracy as two distinct (if possibly overlapping) things.

"Mr Oswald was not being set up as an actual shooter."

What was he being set-up as then?

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2021, 10:25:06 PM »
"Mr Oswald was not being set up as an actual shooter."

What was he being set-up as then?

NoName conspirator #1: Say, why not set up some mental case with a rifle poking out the window behind the limo, then attack from the front.
NoName conspirator #2: Ummmm... not quite sure where you're going with this...
NoName conspirator #1: Hmmmm...
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 08:21:22 PM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2021, 10:25:06 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2021, 10:27:03 PM »
"Mr Oswald was not being set up as an actual shooter."

What was he being set-up as then?

I'm actually not 100% sure he was being set up at all by the assassination plotters, but if he was then it would have been as a commie confederate (most obviously via the Carcano).

One thing I'm sure of: he was not being set up as a gunman, let alone as a lone nut one.

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2021, 10:27:15 PM »
NoName conspirator #1: Say, why not set up some mental case with a rifle poking out the window behind the limo, then attack from the front.
NoName conspirator #2: Ummmmmmm....not quite sure where you're going with this...
NoName conspirator #1: Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......

 ;D

I'm assuming you were cut off just as you were getting going

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2021, 10:27:15 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #53 on: February 05, 2021, 10:32:56 PM »
I'm not so sure Martin.
The Altgens 6 pic is a good example. This picture, which showed the front steps of the TSBD, appeared on the front page of multiple newspapers (hhttp://kennedy-photos.blogspot.com/2013/03/kennedy-gallery-307.htmlours after the assassination)
There was a moment when many people believed this picture actually showed Oswald on the front steps and, as this pic had been seen by thousands of people, it would have exonerated him if it hadn't been Lovelady instead. "They" (whoever they are) would not have been able to contain it.

True, they might not have been able to contain it, but, if "they" controlled the cover up, they could have spinned it, by making public that closer examination of the original picture had revealed that it wasn't Oswald after all. Don't forget that it wasn't instantly that people started to believe Oswald could be seen in the picture. That only came up later and when the HSCA actually examined the picture they just claimed it was Lovelady and not Oswald. That was all it took for most people to accept that it wasn't Oswald.

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If (and it's a big if) Oswald was being manipulated it is hardly a great stretch to imagine he was being told what to do to some extent. A simple order of "stay out of sight" and some bogus excuse should suffice.

True, although it could be more subtle like "wait by the telephone at 12:30"

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It is a very interesting fact that many of Oswald's co-workers tell blatant falsehoods between their various statements - Shelley, Lovelady, Williams, Norman and Dougherty (Givens and Jarman to a lesser extent).
If they were just innocent bystanders there would be no need for this "collective" deception. Of course some facts might get mixed up when recounting events, that's human nature, but this goes way beyond a few mix ups.

I'm not so sure that there was any collective deception. It can be very difficult to get the whole and correct information out of people. Take, for example, the statement by Victoria Adams about meeting Lovelady and Shelley after coming down the stairs. I am sure that happened, but not at the bottom of the stairs, as the WC claimed. The reconstruction I did a while back showed that she could only have seen Shelley and Lovelady after she left the building and ran towards the railroad tracks. Victoria was probably 100% correct that they were the first two men she knew that she saw, she just left out to explain exactly where that was. Another example is that I have frequently gone into meetings in past knowing in my mind exactly what I was going to say, only to come out of such a meeting realizing that I had forgotten some of the things I wanted to say. Getting actual factual 100% correct statements from people is nearly impossible.

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #54 on: February 05, 2021, 10:34:28 PM »
;D

I'm assuming you were cut off just as you were getting going

He's just desperately seeking attention.

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2021, 10:34:35 PM »
I'm actually not 100% sure he was being set up at all by the assassination plotters, but if he was then it would have been as a commie confederate (most obviously via the Carcano).

One thing I'm sure of: he was not being set up as a gunman, let alone as a lone nut one.

So the rifle wasn't being used to set him up as a gunman?
It was being used to set him up as a commie confederate?? (What's a commie confederate?)
Let's remember, Oswald was being announced as the assassin of JFK almost as soon as he was arrested.
Not sure what you're saying here Alan.

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Re: LHO's shirt
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2021, 10:34:35 PM »