Et tu, Bonnie?

[Alan J. Ford]

In his initial statement Bonnie Ray tells us nothing about visiting the 6th floor to eat lunch that day. He stated that the shots came from above. The floor laying crew were all brought in for questioning that day because they worked on that floor. We can conclude he is aware the 6th floor is a "spot of keen interest" to the police yet does not  mention that he had been there. His statement implies that after leaving the 6th floor to break for lunch he went to the 5th floor with Jarman and Norman and that they were there only a short time before the shooting. He heard 2 shots from above and then went to the west side of the fifth floor. He saw no one until officers came up. Then took an elevator to 4th floor, stayed a while and then went out. Highlighting the emphasis on the prime suspect following his arrest, Williams states he had not seen Oswald since 8am.

About the time Williams was released the chicken lunch and Dr Pepper bottle have arrived via Officer Marvin Johnson at the Police Department as part of the evidence recovered from the 6th floor crime scene (see below). It was around this time that the WFAA-TV news report  linked the lunch and pop bottle to the assassin.

The importance of the lunch sack and bottle evaporated by late evening as they are not listed on the items of evidence handed over to SA Drain for further testing by the FBI. The only reason I can think of at this time is that they did not contain Oswald's fingerprints. The investigation even at this early stage appears to be locked on Oswald as the lone shooter. Interestingly the long paper wrapper, eventually  known as CE142, also fell into this category but was sent to the FBI that night via SA Vince Drain.

Carl Day eventually admitted in his WC testimony that he did not find out about the ownership of the lunch until more than 2 days later

Mr. McCLOY. On the crime scene, that is, on the sixth floor, did you notice any chicken bones or chicken remnants of a chicken sandwich or lunch or the whereabouts, if you did see them?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; there was a sack of some chicken bones and a bottle brought into the identification bureau. I think I still have that sack and bottle down there. The chicken bones, I finally threw them away that laid around there. In my talking to the men who were working on that floor, November 25, they stated, one of them stated, he had eaten lunch over there. Mr. McCLOY. Someone other than Oswald?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; so I discarded it, or disconnected it with being with Oswald. Incidentally, Oswald's fingerprints were not on the bottle. I checked that.

Note that the other TSBD employees were not fingerprinted until June 1964 two months after Day testified.

November 23 FBI Interview

Saturday, the day after the assassination Williams was visited by FBI  Agents Odum and Griffin and the following statement prepared following his interview with them. We must bear in mind that just 24 hours after the assassination the only people who would be aware of a gunman on the 6th floor of the TSBD as early as 12.15pm the day before  would be the assassin (s), Arnold Rowland and his wife, Roger Craig and the few police and officials who were involved with Rowland's statement (or were subsequently informed) and Rosemary Allen (the notary who signed his statement). Another person who might have known was the man who Rowland claimed to have observed in the SN prior to 12.15 until about 12.25pm

Some changes from the day before are apparent. Williams now contradicted his statement given just the day before to the DPD. Note the time shift to 11.30am for the descent in the elevator, effectively distancing himself by 20 minutes from the events that took place less than an hour later. In time it would be clear from the evidence of the other members of the floor laying crew and foreman Bill Shelley  that the men did indeed break for lunch about 11.50am. In addition he now remembered he saw Oswald on the 5th floor, as the elevator went down.  Just the day before he doesn’t remember this sighting at all. Givens was operating the other freight elevator (east) and so BRW was on west elevator. Could Williams, in the west elevator really see Oswald standing east of the east elevator?

Significantly,  he now told of the lunch trip to the 6th floor. There are no details provided as to the contents of the lunch. He claimed he went back upstairs about 12 (if we apply a 20 minute time shift correction this actually occurred at 12.10pm). His stay on the 6th floor only lasts three minutes, obviously not enough time to finish lunch!  If we add the time shift it becomes arrives on the 6th floor at 12.10, walks to a position to watch the motorcade and is gone by 12.13pm. Is he trying to avoid being anywhere on the 6th Floor from 12.15 onwards?

Williams claimed to have seen no one and goes down the stairs to the 5th floor and now meets up with Jarman and Norman. They took up a position at the southern windows at " approximately the middle of the building" to watch the motorcade. He heard 2 shots coming from above. He did not hang his head out the window but "glanced up and saw no one". (Was he expecting to see someone shooting in the sky? Was it reflex or did he not want to admit hanging out the window).

He ran to west side windows with the others and, while there, sees an officer (Baker?) come up on the elevator. Did he hear the elevator operating and assume it was Baker (and Truly) who used it? Was someone using the elevator at that time (Dougherty?). Remember Sandra Styles claimed Adams saw the elevator cables moving when the girls descended the stairs. He stated they were standing in a position to see the stairs but saw no one other than the policeman. (Not Oswald or even Dougherty). He also stated that someone might have been coming down on the elevator and he might not notice. If at this time both elevators were supposedly locked on the 5th floor….how was that possible?

He went to 4th floor (by elevator or stairs?) and met with women there. Williams said that no one was in the SN that morning prior to break for lunch. On the sixth floor, he went to the windows on the south side "middle of the building" and saw no one "standing". He saw Frazier on 6th floor talking to Shelley between 10 and 11am. Was this Frazier asking Shelley if the men would be allowed to stop work to get to see the President if the parade was before 12?

December 2 Secret Service
In early December Williams was interviewed by the Secret Service and the following appeared as part the Secret Service Report 491 (WCD87).

In this interview less than 2 weeks after the assassination Williams recalls the elevator race as they broke for lunch and Oswald calling for the lift. On the 6th floor he sat at windows "in the centre of the building". A Dr Pepper bottle and chicken bones  (no mention of a lunch bag) were left together on the floor. He didn't see or hear anyone and only ate his lunch for a few minutes. The lunch was "finished", not partially eaten, and he left immediately for the 5th floor before 12.15pm. (Note 12.15 is mentioned specifically!). Heard only 2 shots coming from 6th floor but did not hear shells and bolt action. They went to west side windows and discussed what they should do.
A policeman was seen near the stairway but Williams did not know if he was going up or down (note no mention of arrival by the elevator now). After 5 minutes they took the stairs down.

This interview  essentially provided a similar story he told the FBI the day after the assassination except for some minor variance and added details. He described the lunch consisting of a chicken bone sandwich and a Dr Pepper. Significantly he is sure he left before 12.15pm. No doubt there has been much talk between the TSBD workers of the events of November 22 and Oswald in the days since it occurred. Apparently he abandoned the idea of moving the lunchbreak earlier by 20 minutes. By this time the others members of the floor laying crew have been interviewed and they generally agreed the elevator race occurred at about 11.50am.  Remember that Carl Day tells us he spoke with the worker who ate the chicken lunch on November 25th, after Williams initial FBI interview . Day may have (inadvertently) provided a description of the final position of the chicken and bottle as found around 2pm on November 22 during that discussion.

Jan 8 Interviewed by the FBI
Williams interviewed again by the FBI about five weeks after the SS interviewed him.

Williams again moves the time they broke for lunch earlier by claiming the elevator race occurred at 11.40am and stated he ate lunch on the 6th floor at noon. Note the consistency in a 20 minute interval between departing and arriving back on the 6th floor. Once again he recalled staying only a few minutes, leaving at 12.05pm,  before joining Jarman and Norman on the 5th floor. In this interview he told for the first time that the motivation for going down was that he heard them below. According to this revised timeline he  spends about 25 minutes with them before the motorcade arrives. Compare this with his first day statement, taken about 3 hours after the shots, where he stated that "just after we got on the 5th floor the motorcade arrived". In this report he further distanced himself from 12.15pm by effectively moving the departure time from the 6th floor from 12.13 to 12.05!

March 18th Internal Memorandum: Belin and Ball to Willens

In this extensive memorandum in the lead up to key witnesses testifying before the Commission, Ball and Belin ask the following questions on page 4.

Ball and Belin asked for clarification regarding the contents of the lunch, where it was eaten and whether it was in a sack. They wanted to know if Williams saw anyone while eating the lunch and what time he arrived on the 5th floor. They also wanted to know if there were fingerprints on the sack.

Understandably, these are some of the same questions anyone would have after reading his statements when compared to those of the DPD officers and his workmates.

Note they were also keen to determine the speed of the elevators. The last question is actually referring to Williams, not Lovelady. There was considerable confusion regarding which elevators the men descended in during the "elevator race".

March 19 FBI Interview

Williams was interviewed by the FBI for a third time on March 19, the day after the Ball/Belin memo, four months after assassination.

In this interview there is no mention of the lunch or eating on the 6th floor. Interestingly he places the three men at the "windows at the centre of the building" on the 5th floor (possibly an FBI error). He had previously used the same phrase for the lunch position on the 6th floor. Their position on the 5th floor was under SN in the SE corner not at centre of the building! Now he reported hearing 3 shots not 2 for the first time. Once again he recalled looking up but saw no one. Now after running to the west side he saw the Officer come up on the elevator. He did not see anyone come down the stairs. He now remembered Oswald on the 6th floor at 11.40am on the east side. Was this during the elevator race or a new separate sighting? Remember about 10 minutes later Oswald is on the 5th floor near the east elevator as the men broke for lunch. I tend to believe this was a reference to the elevator race again attempting to place it earlier  than it actually occurred. In this statement we discover that he was at City Hall from about 1 until 3.30pm on the day of the assassination. Clearly this interview did not cover the questions asked by Ball and Belin in the memo the day before. Therefore it would seem that this interview  was not triggered by that request. I cannot find any interview with Williams that clarified the memo questions prior to his appearance before the WC. In his testimony it is apparent that Ball spent much time with Williams (and Jarman and Norman) four days before they testified in an attempt to make sense of events leading up to the shots.

Summary of Williams' Interviews and Statements before appearing before the WC.

There seems no doubt about the occurrence of some key events arising from the five statements taken from Williams over a five month period.
There was an elevator race as the flooring crew broke for lunch.
Oswald was noticed on the 5th floor as the elevators descended.
Although initially stating to the DPD that all three men went to the 5th floor together, Williams eventually told the FBI  of his return to the 6th floor.
In early statements he went up for lunch about 20 minutes after the elevator race.
He ate his lunch on the 6th floor, eventually revealing it to consist of a chicken on the bone sandwich and a Dr Pepper in the SS interview on December 2nd.
While eating his lunch he neither saw or heard no one on the 6th floor.
He finished his lunch and placed the bones in the bag at a position close to the southern windows near the "centre of the building" near the Dr Pepper bottle. (Consistent with the configuration and the rough location known to Day and Studebaker).
He remained on the 6th floor only a few minutes before joining Jarman and Norman.
His means of descent to the 5th floor was unclear, stairs or elevator?
The arrival time on the 6th floor was sometime around noon and left to join his workmates sometime between 12.05 and 12.13pm. He was definitely gone before 12.15, the time the gunman was seen on the 6th floor by Arnold Rowland.
Williams joined his workmates at least 15 minutes before the shooting because he heard them below while eating his lunch. (Obviously, for this to be true, Norman and Jarman had to be in position in the windows on the 5th floor before 12.15).
He heard 2 shots that came from above  and glanced up(4 months later it changed to 3).
After the shots the men ran to the south west corner windows. They were understandably scared and discussed what to do.
He saw a white helmeted police officer arrive on the 5th floor although he was confused as to whether the officer arrived via the stairs or elevator and the direction of his arrival.
The men descended the stairs, after about 5 minutes, stopping briefly and noticing women on the 4th floor, eventually arriving on the first floor.

Treasure trove!

Thanks for sharing this insightful post, Mr. Crow, encouraging to read--among other things-- that Lt. Day made it crystal clear that the fingerprints upon that Dr. Pepper bottle did Not belong to the wrongly accused. There's a reason for that...he was nowhere near the scene of the SN.

[Alan J. Ford]

At the time he was being questioned in the DPD he knew the following. The shots that had been fired were from above. Those who were on the sixth floor were brought for questioning. Fair chance he knew that was significant. His lunch remnants were up there. By 3pm his lunch was being described as the assassin's. He also saw Oswald in custody. No threat to him but maybe there were conspirators on the loose.

Wonder why he decided to leave his lunch trip out of the statement given its obvious significance?

This just keeps getting better...

Given the photo image shared by Mr. Crow, it's crystal clear that Mr. Williams' stress-level meter is in the red zone as he is obviously contemplating his future amid that unmistakable horrifying look upon his face. What was this man an accomplice to that afternoon?

[Alan J. Ford]

Encouraging to read the tandem of Mr. Crow & Mr. O'meara's keen assessment of this thread's namesake Mr. Williams' obvious waffling, fork-tongued "truth".  Carry on gentlemen.

*Will reread topshelf researcher Mr. Davidson's post (#321) again on Friday and make a response then.

Upon viewing the video he shared wanted to reserve comment until waiting to clarify a couple of contrived timeline points in my notes shared by the lying rooftop tandem...particularly if the rather short man on the extreme right at the 39 sec. mark in the video is Roy Truly...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ak3JymYrSpzVtF0i-jbAxuRICk9lcZ5q/view

Man what I'd give to find a photo image of a working clock on the wall in the above sequence.

[Richard Smith]

Treasure trove!

Thanks for sharing this insightful post, Mr. Crow, encouraging to read--among other things-- that Lt. Day made it crystal clear that the fingerprints upon that Dr. Pepper bottle did Not belong to the wrongly accused. There's a reason for that...he was nowhere near the scene of the SN.

That some interesting "logic."  Why would Oswald's prints not being on a Dr. Pepper bottle that belonged to someone else preclude his presence in the SN? Oswald's fingerprints were all over the SN boxes. 

[Martin Weidmann]

That some interesting "logic."  Why would Oswald's prints not being on a Dr. Pepper bottle that belonged to someone else have preclude his presence in the SN? Oswald's fingerprints were all over the SN boxes.

Oswald's fingerprints were all over the SN boxes.

Massive exaggeration, as per usual. But so what?

Oswald worked on that floor and handled boxes every day. Besides there were other prints, likely of co-workers and police officers, on those boxes, which were being moved around because of the work that was being done to the floor. Oswald's prints being anywhere on the 6th floor are meaningless and of no real evidentiary value.

[Bill Chapman]

That some interesting "logic."  Why would Oswald's prints not being on a Dr. Pepper bottle that belonged to someone else preclude his presence in the SN? Oswald's fingerprints were all over the SN boxes.

Only one box is needed to nail the little prick:

[Richard Smith]

Oswald's fingerprints were all over the SN boxes.

Massive exaggeration, as per usual. But so what?

Oswald worked on that floor and handled boxes every day. Besides there were other prints, likely of co-workers and police officers, on those boxes, which were being moved around because of the work that was being done to the floor. Oswald's prints being anywhere on the 6th floor are meaningless and of no real evidentiary value.

Poor Oswald.  What bad luck he had.  Of all the TSBD employees, his are the only ones found on the SN boxes.   And bag. And rifle.  What are the odds?  Just a good old boy going about his business.  His prints on the very boxes used by the assassin to assassinate JFK are "meaningless" and of "no real evidentiary value."   You should be embarrassed and apologize to intelligent people for this type of nonsense.  I'm actually embarrassed for you.

[Bill Chapman]

Yeah, maybe that's what it is Bill.

I was naively assuming that an innocent person being asked to give a statement regarding such a massive event would be doing their best to remember what they did, as opposed to just spouting off the first thing that came into their heads as if it was all some kind of joke.

spout off
to speak out publicly about someone or something; to reveal information publicly about someone or something