Et tu, Bonnie?

[Bill Chapman]

I reckon that Williams did in fact see Oswald in the sniper's nest because why would he go up to the 6th floor to sit with his mates and just plonk himself down in the middle of the floor without checking all the windows?

When Williams went down to the 5th floor he obviously went to the windows directly below the sniper's nest, so what stopped him doing the same on the floor above?

When confronted with the following wall of boxes, would Williams simply shout out to his friends and after not hearing an answer just move on or would he have a peek to see if his friends were there and perhaps just horsing around?

Blue box quote from JohnM

Firstly, to say 'why would' is assuming the fellow would do what you would or wouldn't do.

And silence has a funny way of sounding deafening: If he heard no sound as he entered the sixth floor, he might have had a pretty good idea that his buddies hadn't arrived yet. And he might have decided that the stack of boxes in the se corner blocked off that corner and maybe the windows as well; not worth checking out.

Colin, can you tell us just how long is the 'long time' you claim he was on the 6th floor during lunch. For one thing he wouldn't have to worry about missing the parade until he heard a big surge in crowd noise as would certainly occur when the motorcade finally turned the corner at Main (and even louder as the limo itself appeared). He had a wall of windows to choose from, dirty or not. And I doubt that they were nailed shut.

[Chris Davidson]

Gentlemen,

It is encouraging to read one of their more interesting pursuits lately within this thread...folks are beginning to gauge/weigh the statements, actions and movements of this thread's namesake, Mr. Williams (Bonnie Ray). A glaring red-flag arises when we take into account his first day affidavit (a link to it is in the initial post (page 1) for those who may not have already read it; and, his sudden departure from it four months later amid his Warren Commission testimony. Like his counterparts--the lying rooftop tandem--the evolving statements of Mr. Williams' bears the stench of a hastily contrived script.

A few questions that arise here are: (A) What were his true whereabouts given his two different versions of his "truth"; (B) Why did he initially lie in his same day affidavit? or (C) Is his WC testimony four months later a lie? Either way he is mired in quicksand of his own doing, or perhaps at the handling of someone he holds an allegiance to for whatever reason...that said, a much closer examination and spotlight on his actual movements & purpose is further research time well spent.

Last thought today, now taking into consideration WFAA journalist Tom Alyea's photo of Roy Truly, Marrion Baker, etc shared below by topshelf researcher Mr. Davidson ---->

Quote from: Chris Davidson on April 08, 2021, 01:19:24 AM
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1thgfDT6J0DCMaiKRdG9aJq9cDElhMJQW/view?usp=sharing

By pinpointing the arrival time of Captain Fritz to the Texas School Book Depository (1:58PM CST) his words per his testimony; and the following remarks by Marrion Baker...

Mr. BELIN - Did you leave Mr. Truly or did you stay with him?
Mr. BAKER - I left Mr. Truly there.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Mr. BAKER - I immediately went on out. I was with this motorcade and I went right on straight through the front door and got on my motorcycle and tried to find out what happened to the motorcade.

The importance here of comparing both timelines (Captain Fritz's arrival time to the crime scene and Baker's departure prior to that arrival) is to highlight that Tom Alyea couldn't have captured Roy Truly & Marrion Baker together unless his photo was taken upon his initial rush into the building w/police.

After Baker's departure no one, let alone Mr. Alyea could have produced the photo we see in the link placing him and Roy Truly together in that huddle. The more telling revelation here is that once again further evidence emerges that the lying rooftop tandem weren't otherwise busy charging up the backstairs amid a hastily contrived script.

Lest anyone thinks Tom Alyea took that "huddle" photo after the exploits of the lying rooftop tandem just read the following to know precisely where Mr. Alyea was looong after Marrion Baker's departure...

Fritz had joined the search party on the 5th floor and directed us to
> the elevator to go to the 6th floor. After about five minutes, an
> officer shouted to Capt. Fritz to come to the front window. I presume
> it was Mooney, I have never seen him before. This man did not go
> behind the barricade. Capt. Fritz and I arrived seconds later to look
> over the first barricade and see the open window with three book
> cartons stacked at and in the window. We looked over the first
> barricade and saw three shell casings. -- Tom Alyea

Why did the lying rooftop tandem lie about their exploits upon that otherwise locked roof from the inside? Why was Roy Truly in the SN before incriminating evidence was found? ---->

Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ak3JymYrSpzVtF0i-jbAxuRICk9lcZ5q/view?usp=sharing

[Dan O'meara]

Did BRW volunteer the changes unprovoked? Makes a difference.

As usual, I've tried to understand what's going on and ended up more baffled.

On the 22nd BRW signs his affidavit saying he went upstairs with Norman and Jarman.
On the 23rd, in a FBI interview he states he went up to 6 by himself with his lunch.
On the same day Jarman signs his affidavit. It mentions nothing about going upstairs.
On the 24th Jarman has an FBI interview. Once again, it mentions nothing about going upstairs.
Norman is not asked to give an affidavit at this time (?)
On the 26th Norman has an FBI interview. It mentions nothing about going upstairs.

Neither Norman nor Jarman mention going upstairs and Williams has straightened his story out by the 23rd.
In the weeks that follow the men must surely have talked about things at work, compared notes, as it were.
However, this doesn't appear to be the case.

On the 4th December Norman signs his affidavit:

"About 12:15 PM...after I had eaten my lunch, I went to the fifth floor of the building...Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman, who also work with me at this building went with me."

Norman appears to be supporting the lie Bonnie Ray distanced himself from the day after the assassination. In a sworn and signed affidavit. The next day Jarman also has a FBI interview but it seems to be about Oswald's clothes and not much more.

On the 14th January, 64, Jarman has another FBI interview. If Norman's statement can be written off as some kind of mis-statement, Jarman's cannot:

"He [Jarman] said that he and the other two boys [Norman and Williams] ate lunch on the first floor around 12:00 noon on November 22, 1963, and shortly afterwards went to the fifth floor, about 12:25 PM...He said RAY and NORMAN were with him all the time he was on the first floor..."

WTF!
Jarman and Norman don't need to cover for Williams. He has already straightened out his story. By the 26th everything is under control. Then both Norman and Jarman feel it necessary to carry on the lie.
Or do they?

[Colin Crow]

Blue box quote from JohnM

Firstly, to say 'why would' is assuming the fellow would do what you would or wouldn't do.

And silence has a funny way of sounding deafening: If he heard no sound as he entered the sixth floor, he might have had a pretty good idea that his buddies hadn't arrived yet. And he might have decided that the stack of boxes in the se corner blocked off that corner and maybe the windows as well; not worth checking out.

Colin, can you tell us just how long is the 'long time' you claim he was on the 6th floor during lunch. For one thing he wouldn't have to worry about missing the parade until he heard a big surge in crowd noise as would certainly occur when the motorcade finally turned the corner at Main (and even louder as the limo itself appeared). He had a wall of windows to choose from, dirty or not. And I doubt that they were nailed shut.

Those were John's thoughts but seem reasonable given they had been stacking books there he would be aware of the arrangement in th SN.

As for the timing of his exit in believe it to be around 12.25 or so. I think this was about the time Brennan took position on the wall. The motorcade would have started on Main. Then a minute or two to find the guys below gets him there just a few minutes before the shooting. It seems he must leave almost as Jarman and Norman arrive on the fifth.

Mr. BRENNAN. Well, I was more or less observing the crowd and the people in different building windows, including the fire escape across from the Texas Book Store on the east side of the Texas Book Store, and also the Texas Book Store Building windows. I observed quite a few people in different windows. In particular, I saw this one man on the sixth floor which left the window to my knowledge a couple of times.

As he took up position about 12.25, could the first sighting be of Williams exiting the SN?  Saw the man leave the window "a couple of times?" This was not reported previously.
   

[Colin Crow]

As usual, I've tried to understand what's going on and ended up more baffled.

On the 22nd BRW signs his affidavit saying he went upstairs with Norman and Jarman.
On the 23rd, in a FBI interview he states he went up to 6 by himself with his lunch.
On the same day Jarman signs his affidavit. It mentions nothing about going upstairs.
On the 24th Jarman has an FBI interview. Once again, it mentions nothing about going upstairs.
Norman is not asked to give an affidavit at this time (?)
On the 26th Norman has an FBI interview. It mentions nothing about going upstairs.

Neither Norman nor Jarman mention going upstairs and Williams has straightened his story out by the 23rd.
In the weeks that follow the men must surely have talked about things at work, compared notes, as it were.
However, this doesn't appear to be the case.

On the 4th December Norman signs his affidavit:

"About 12:15 PM...after I had eaten my lunch, I went to the fifth floor of the building...Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman, who also work with me at this building went with me."

Norman appears to be supporting the lie Bonnie Ray distanced himself from the day after the assassination. In a sworn and signed affidavit. The next day Jarman also has a FBI interview but it seems to be about Oswald's clothes and not much more.

On the 14th January, 64, Jarman has another FBI interview. If Norman's statement can be written off as some kind of mis-statement, Jarman's cannot:

"He [Jarman] said that he and the other two boys [Norman and Williams] ate lunch on the first floor around 12:00 noon on November 22, 1963, and shortly afterwards went to the fifth floor, about 12:25 PM...He said RAY and NORMAN were with him all the time he was on the first floor..."

WTF!
Jarman and Norman don't need to cover for Williams. He has already straightened out his story. By the 26th everything is under control. Then both Norman and Jarman feel it necessary to carry on the lie.
Or do they?

Check Williams 23rd statement. He moves the elevator race to 11.30. Now mentions briefly going to the sixth for a few minutes then goes down to the fifth. It’s a simple time shift to avoid 12.15, the time Rowland has a gunman on the sixth floor. His story is evolving by Saturday but has no way to contact Jarman and Norman until Monday.

[Bill Chapman]

As usual, I've tried to understand what's going on and ended up more baffled.

On the 22nd BRW signs his affidavit saying he went upstairs with Norman and Jarman.
On the 23rd, in a FBI interview he states he went up to 6 by himself with his lunch.
On the same day Jarman signs his affidavit. It mentions nothing about going upstairs.
On the 24th Jarman has an FBI interview. Once again, it mentions nothing about going upstairs.
Norman is not asked to give an affidavit at this time (?)
On the 26th Norman has an FBI interview. It mentions nothing about going upstairs.

Neither Norman nor Jarman mention going upstairs and Williams has straightened his story out by the 23rd.
In the weeks that follow the men must surely have talked about things at work, compared notes, as it were.
However, this doesn't appear to be the case.

On the 4th December Norman signs his affidavit:

"About 12:15 PM...after I had eaten my lunch, I went to the fifth floor of the building...Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman, who also work with me at this building went with me."

Norman appears to be supporting the lie Bonnie Ray distanced himself from the day after the assassination. In a sworn and signed affidavit. The next day Jarman also has a FBI interview but it seems to be about Oswald's clothes and not much more.

On the 14th January, 64, Jarman has another FBI interview. If Norman's statement can be written off as some kind of mis-statement, Jarman's cannot:

"He [Jarman] said that he and the other two boys [Norman and Williams] ate lunch on the first floor around 12:00 noon on November 22, 1963, and shortly afterwards went to the fifth floor, about 12:25 PM...He said RAY and NORMAN were with him all the time he was on the first floor..."

WTF!
Jarman and Norman don't need to cover for Williams. He has already straightened out his story. By the 26th everything is under control. Then both Norman and Jarman feel it necessary to carry on the lie.
Or do they?

Maybe too much emphasis is being placed on a couple of guys seemingly more interested in horsing around, racing elevators and whatnot, than them being interested in recording the exact timing & sequence of who was where and when.

Re seemingly conflicting affidavits involving the 3 amigos, don't forget that affidavits are not Q&A and each person will spout off about whatever comes to mind in those moments when giving said affidavit.

[Colin Crow]

Maybe too much emphasis is being placed on a couple of guys seemingly more interested in horsing around, racing elevators and whatnot, than them being interested in recording the exact timing & sequence of who was where and when.

Re seemingly conflicting affidavits involving the 3 amigos, don't forget that affidavits are not Q&A and each person will spout off about whatever comes to mind in those moments when giving said affidavit.

Well it seems no emphasis was placed on the differences by the various agencies. Ball and Belin eventually sought answers in a memo to Willens. They went to Dallas in mid March to sort out a narrative that "worked". They ignored the early sighting of the lunch in the SN and went with the Studebaker arrangement. They had to have Williams on the floor after 12.15 though and in a position he would have seen someone in the SW window. Somehow they had Oswald crouching in the SN at that time.

[Dan O'meara]

Maybe too much emphasis is being placed on a couple of guys seemingly more interested in horsing around, racing elevators and whatnot, than them being interested in recording the exact timing & sequence of who was where and when.

Yeah, maybe that's what it is Bill.

Re seemingly conflicting affidavits involving the 3 amigos, don't forget that affidavits are not Q&A and each person will spout off about whatever comes to mind in those moments when giving said affidavit.

I was naively assuming that an innocent person being asked to give a statement regarding such a massive event would be doing their best to remember what they did, as opposed to just spouting off the first thing that came into their heads as if it was all some kind of joke.