Et tu, Bonnie?

[Colin Crow]

"He doesn't remember every mundane detail with scientific precision or answer every such question consistently."

I couldn't agree more. We're all human and fallible to say the least.
My memory isn't that great at the best of times and if I was asked to recall my movements from a few hours ago I have little doubt there would be lost details, incorrect times etc.
But one thing I feel confident about is that I wouldn't remember something that didn't happen. Which is what BRW appears to have done. The mundane detail that seemed to slip from his mind was that he went up to the 6th floor alone, spent the better part of half an hour up there and then went down to meet up with Norman and Jarman on the 5th floor minutes before the motorcade arrived.
Instead, he remembers meeting up with Norman and Jarman on the first floor and going up to the 5th floor with them!

He's not being asked to remember something from 50 years ago. It was earlier that day and his recorded statements don't change with time.
Maybe it is my "subjective interpretation" of events.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Tell me anyone who doesn’t know what time their lunch time is.

[Colin Crow]

That is mostly just your subjective interpretation of his motives.  He doesn't remember every mundane detail with scientific precision or answer every such question consistently.  That doesn't mean he is lying or getting his story straight.  It just means he is not particularly precise or consistent when recounting what were mundane events down to the minute at later dates.  These types of details take on greater significance to us with 50+ years of knowledge of the events than to someone who just had lunch that day not realizing his every movement would be subject to scrutiny.  There are numerous instances in this case of folks being wildly off in their estimate of the time that certain events occurred.  Someone once went through a entire list here on the forum of witnesses miscalculating the time that certain events occurred that day including obvious ones such as the time that JFK was assassinated and getting it wrong.

The "story" was straightened by Belin and Ball on March 20. Those of Jarman and Norman too. A story that sort of allowed Oswald to be silent in th SN for many minutes unnoticed. Still wondering how Rowland's 12.15 gunman managed to stay out of William's gaze though.

By May seems 12.15pm wasn’t a problem any more for him. More memory loss?



Does anyone think he got the times he left for work wrong that day?

[Colin Crow]

That is mostly just your subjective interpretation of his motives.  He doesn't remember every mundane detail with scientific precision or answer every such question consistently.  That doesn't mean he is lying or getting his story straight.  It just means he is not particularly precise or consistent when recounting what were mundane events down to the minute at later dates.  These types of details take on greater significance to us with 50+ years of knowledge of the events than to someone who just had lunch that day not realizing his every movement would be subject to scrutiny.  There are numerous instances in this case of folks being wildly off in their estimate of the time that certain events occurred.  Someone once went through a entire list here on the forum of witnesses miscalculating the time that certain events occurred that day including obvious ones such as the time that JFK was assassinated and getting it wrong.

Strawman....it is the sequence of events that can be corroborated that is important. Not the exact time. Also if important events are omitted that were known to have occurred. Would you have William's in the elevator with Jarman and Norman on their way to the fifth? Maybe Bonnie Ray joins them on the fifth before they arrive. Perhaps you could offer your analysis of the evidence presented rather than a simple....they were just confused and had memory loss verdict. I hope you can appreciate that for some of us that just doesn’t cut it. All those taking of statements would just be a total waste of time.

[Colin Crow]

That's not Mr Shelley, it's Mr Danny Arce.

Mr Lovelady is still on the steps (yellow arrow)



Mr Shelley completely changed his story from
------------------I ran into Gloria Calvery on the corner of the park and she told me what had happened
to
------------------I stayed on the steps and Gloria Calvery came up and told us what had happened then Billy & I left the steps

Mr Shelley, not inconsequentially, had been best man at Gloria Calvery's wedding a few months earlier!

Mr. BALL. Where were you standing when you heard the shots?
Mr. ARCE. I was standing in front of the Texas School Book Depository. I was on that grassy area part in front.
Mr. BALL. You were not on the sidewalk?
Mr. ARCE. No, I was on the sidewalk, then I walked up to the grass to get a higher view. and still couldn't see.

I believe he has been identified standing east of the main entrance on the sidewalk as the motorcade passed. Hopefully someone has that image.

[Dan O'meara]

Tell me anyone who doesn’t know what time their lunch time is.

It isn't just Williams whose memory seems to have deserted him concerning events that day.
Although BRW changes his lie the next day and more or less sticks to it (ignoring his problems with time-keeping), Norman and Jarman, in various interviews with the FBI and the Secret Service insist he was with them on the first floor and went up to the 5th floor with them. That is, until the WC hearings when everyone is suddenly singing from the same hymn sheet. For months Jarman and Norman insist BRW was with them whilst BRW is telling everyone he went up to the 6th floor alone.

At first Bill Shelley says he went back to the steps and back into the TSBD to phone his wife - this is a lie. After the shooting he went down to the railroad yard for a few minutes and entered the TSBD through the west door.
Lovelady says he was out on the front steps then went back inside the building. This is exactly the same lie as Shelley's as he also went down to the railroad yard for a few minutes before entering the west door.
It is interesting to note both Shelley and Lovelady tell exactly the same lie in their WC testimonies when they both try to put a timestamp of three minutes on the arrival of Baker.

Dougherty lied about working on the 5th floor at the time of the shooting and his story about taking the elevator down to the first, having a word with Piper then returning to work on the 6th is also a massive lie.

Charles Givens sudden remembrance, months after the event, that he went back up to the 6th floor and saw Oswald, stinks to high heaven.

Nearly all the men who were on the 6th floor that morning are lying about something or other.
You can look at each individual case and say "it could be this, it could be that" but when viewed as a collective it is clear there is something amiss.
People will always forget details about events, even if they occurred only a matter of hours earlier.
But too many people are remembering things that didn't happen and they were all on the 6th floor.

Some can brush that under the carpet but I cannot.

[Colin Crow]

Things were "sorted out" by Belin and Ball on March 20. The various re-enactments were conducted according to one conclusion. The participants merely needed to stick to the script. Some did better than others. There are many examples of "prepping" that slipped out.

[Dan O'meara]

Mr. BALL. Where were you standing when you heard the shots?
Mr. ARCE. I was standing in front of the Texas School Book Depository. I was on that grassy area part in front.
Mr. BALL. You were not on the sidewalk?
Mr. ARCE. No, I was on the sidewalk, then I walked up to the grass to get a higher view. and still couldn't see.

I believe he has been identified standing east of the main entrance on the sidewalk as the motorcade passed. Hopefully someone has that image.

This is supposed to be Arce in Altgens 6

[Dan O'meara]

Things were "sorted out" by Belin and Ball on March 20. The various re-enactments were conducted according to one conclusion. The participants merely needed to stick to the script. Some did better than others. There are many examples of "prepping" that slipped out.

If the WC testimonies represent the "truth", I find it interesting that the majority of those who were on the 6th floor that day are lying on their very first statements to the authorities.