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Author Topic: Et tu, Bonnie?  (Read 71839 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #472 on: May 02, 2021, 12:48:37 PM »
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I believe the time was closer to 1.30. Fritz had requested Senkel to gather all those who had been on the sixth floor to be taken for statements. This occurred about the time of the rifle discovery and Truly informing Fritz of Oswald's absence.

Messrs Williams and (especially) Arce suggest it was considerably earlier than that.

Mr Shelley words the following reply rather carefully:

Mr. BALL - Were you there when they found anything up there?
Mr. SHELLEY - I was, I believe I was on the sixth floor when they found the gun but we were searching all parts of that floor.


I would be just as slow to trust what Captain Fritz, Detective Senkel or Mr Truly have to say on this!

Perhaps shadow analysis of the footage/photographs showing Messrs Shelley, Williams and Arce would resolve this timing issue?

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #472 on: May 02, 2021, 12:48:37 PM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #473 on: May 02, 2021, 04:08:02 PM »
Messrs Williams and (especially) Arce suggest it was considerably earlier than that.

Mr Shelley words the following reply rather carefully:

Mr. BALL - Were you there when they found anything up there?
Mr. SHELLEY - I was, I believe I was on the sixth floor when they found the gun but we were searching all parts of that floor.


I would be just as slow to trust what Captain Fritz, Detective Senkel or Mr Truly have to say on this!

Perhaps shadow analysis of the footage/photographs showing Messrs Shelley, Williams and Arce would resolve this timing issue?



It's not conclusive but the lack of activity on the front steps and in front of the TSBD in general gives me the impression that this pic was taken a lot later than 1:00 PM when Sawyer had his command post outside and the search of the TSBD was still in full flow.
Looking at the background it looks as if things have really calmed down. It would be tempted to put this at closer to 2:00 PM but 1:30 pm seems reasonable (ish).

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #474 on: May 02, 2021, 04:32:04 PM »
OK, but nothing to preclude Mr Williams either----who may have proved more pliable under pressure than Mr Givens (who seems to have insisted he ate a sandwich of the non-chicken-bones variety......)

If the lunch remains were a set up, Givens would be the choice because Williams was supposed to be with Jarman and Norman.
Givens was on his own and already had form with the local authorities, so was easily controlled.

I've come to accept that Jarman and Norman's differing statements are a result of trying to cover for Williams and his lie that he wasn't on the 6th floor. Williams tries everything in his power to distance himself from the SN at lunch-time.
For whatever reason, Williams, Jarman and Norman don't co-ordinate what they are telling the authorities, hence the conflicting accounts.


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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #474 on: May 02, 2021, 04:32:04 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #475 on: May 03, 2021, 01:11:44 AM »
Question for those who believe Messrs Norman & Jarman just happened to decide watch the motorcade from five rather than six..............

If Messrs Norman and Jarman had decided to go to six rather than five, what do you think would have happened?

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #476 on: May 03, 2021, 04:46:26 AM »
How do we know that?
l

Because no officer who arrived about the time Fritz arrived described them in the way the first to the scene did. Jim Ewell said that Jerry Hill held the chicken up. This was before Fritz arrived. Studebaker's description is the final resting place and the bones and chicken in the bag.

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #476 on: May 03, 2021, 04:46:26 AM »


Online Gerry Down

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #477 on: May 03, 2021, 04:48:40 AM »
If Messrs Norman and Jarman

What does "messrs" mean?

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #478 on: May 03, 2021, 04:53:56 AM »
What does "messrs" mean?

Plural of Mr

Online Gerry Down

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #479 on: May 03, 2021, 05:00:38 AM »
Plural of Mr

Really? I thought it was messers, as in they were "messing about".

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Re: Et tu, Bonnie?
« Reply #479 on: May 03, 2021, 05:00:38 AM »