This is what Oswald died for...

[Jon Banks]

On the larger question, “Can a Socialist economy be successful”, we need an example on an economy that is socialist and successful. Showing an economy with some socialist control, but also a good deal of free enterprise is no good. How do we know their economic success was from the free enterprise aspects of their economy, and not the result of government control of the economy? How do we know their successes have occurred despite government interference, not because of them?

There are no examples of a successful socialist economy. Such a critter is as mythical as Bigfoot. All real socialist economies, like China’s before 1978, were failures.

There are no purely Capitalist or Socialist economies. Every industrialized nation has a mixed economy. The US is Capitalist-leaning but has a broad social safety-net and financial regulations. China is Socialist-leaning but allows private ownership of businesses and engages in the Free Market outside of China.

However, the PRC today still self-identifies as "Marxist-Leninist". So if one wants to argue that "Socialism never works" they have to address China, Vietnam, Bolivia, and a handful of other countries where Socialist governments have successfully reduced poverty and created healthy economies...

 

[Joe Elliott]

There are no purely Capitalist or Socialist economies. Every industrialized nation has a mixed economy. The US is Capitalist-leaning but has a broad social safety-net and financial regulations. China is Socialist-leaning but allows private ownership of businesses and engages in the Free Market outside of China.

However, the PRC today still self-identifies as "Marxist-Leninist". So if one wants to argue that "Socialism never works" they have to address China, Vietnam, Bolivia, and a handful of other countries where Socialist governments have successfully reduced poverty and created healthy economies...

It is irrelevant to me as to how a country self identifies itself. That fact is that all countries which have economic success own this to the allowing, at least to some extent, the operation of a free market.

Not all governments are a combination of Capitalist and Socialist economies. Before 1978, China was a pure Socialist economy and it failed totally to bring prosperity to its people.

Of course, China can’t identify itself as anything other than a “Marxist-Leninist” government. There have been too many decades of propaganda for them to identify themselves as anything else. Trump can “self-identify” himself as a Pro-Democracy politician who respects the principle of government of the people, by the people and for the people, but that doesn’t make him so. What governments and people “self-identify” themselves as does not matter to me.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Natives all over the world have been socialist & communist & successful for thousands of years. The Australian aborigines for 50,000 years, until white man came.

[Jon Banks]

Not all governments are a combination of Capitalist and Socialist economies.

Name one industrialized country that doesn't have a mixed economy.

Of course, China can’t identify itself as anything other than a “Marxist-Leninist” government. There have been too many decades of propaganda for them to identify themselves as anything else. Trump can “self-identify” himself as a Pro-Democracy politician who respects the principle of government of the people, by the people and for the people, but that doesn’t make him so. What governments and people “self-identify” themselves as does not matter to me.

China decided to participate in the Global economy abroad but domestically, they are still governed by ideological Marxists.

Deng Xiaoping: Socialism with Chinese Characteristics
https://newlearningonline.com/new-learning/chapter-4/deng-xiaoping-socialism-with-chinese-characteristics

At the founding of the People’s Republic, we inherited from old China a ruined economy with virtually no industry. There was a shortage of grain, inflation was acute and the economy was in chaos. But we solved the problems of feeding and employing the population, stabilized commodity prices and unified financial and economic work, and the economy rapidly recovered. On this foundation we started large-scale reconstruction. What did we rely on? We relied on Marxism and socialism. Some people ask why we chose socialism. We answer that we had to, because capitalism would get China nowhere. If we had taken the capitalist road, we could not have put an end to the chaos in the country or done away with poverty and backwardness. That is why we have repeatedly declared that we shall adhere to Marxism and keep to the socialist road. But by Marxism we mean Marxism that is integrated with Chinese conditions, and by socialism we mean a socialism that is tailored to Chinese conditions and has a specifically Chinese character.

[Charles Collins]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living_in_China

[Joe Elliott]

I look at claims that China’s is an example of a Socialist country with a good economy as analogous to the following fable.

Initially there are men who claim we can fly like birds. If you run fast enough and flap your arms hard enough, a human can fly like a bird. These believers were called “Flappers”. But they never got anywhere.

Then, people developed airplanes with fixed wings and propellers and people truly started to fly.

The flappers responded by putting two men in an airplane, the pilot in the front and the “Flapper” sitting behind him, vigorously flapping his arms. And they did fly successfully, And the people who supported the “Flapper” theory pointing out these flights as “proving” that “Flapping” can allow people to fly through the air, just as they claimed all along.

[Charles Collins]

I look at claims that China’s is an example of a Socialist country with a good economy as analogous to the following fable.

Initially there are men who claim we can fly like birds. If you run fast enough and flap your arms hard enough, a human can fly like a bird. These believers were called “Flappers”. But they never got anywhere.

Then, people developed airplanes with fixed wings and propellers and people truly started to fly.

The flappers responded by putting two men in an airplane, the pilot in the front and the “Flapper” sitting behind him, vigorously flapping his arms. And they did fly successfully, And the people who supported the “Flapper” theory pointing out these flights as “proving” that “Flapping” can allow people to fly through the air, just as they claimed all along.

Excerpt from the article that I posted a couple of posts earlier in this thread:

“Since the 1990s there has been an increasing number of apartments built in China which remain empty. In 2010 approximately 65 million apartments, capable of housing some 250 million people, were unoccupied, due to there being too expensive for the majority of Chinese to purchase or rent.”

Empty apartments capable of housing 250 million people. That is over 3/4 of the current population of the United States for a perspective.

Yes, I agree Joe, much like flapping arms on the airplane and claiming that they can fly...

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Excerpt from the article that I posted a couple of posts earlier in this thread:

“Since the 1990s there has been an increasing number of apartments built in China which remain empty. In 2010 approximately 65 million apartments, capable of housing some 250 million people, were unoccupied, due to there being too expensive for the majority of Chinese to purchase or rent.”

Empty apartments capable of housing 250 million people. That is over 3/4 of the current population of the United States for a perspective.

Yes, I agree Joe, much like flapping arms on the airplane and claiming that they can fly...

Hence, Oswald should have learnt German & married a German girl, a fascist China would not have empty apartments.