Hoffman couldn't hear, White didn't hear, Murphy heard.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/FreeWayman.htm
……….. After the motorcade passed and having failed to get “Foster’s” attention, Ed then ran to his car and headed north on Stemmons to the first exit at Continental Avenue, and then into downtown in search of someone in authority to tell what he’d seen. [EW, 10]
 (Marrs and Sloan each next take Ed into the Dealey Plaza area, the former describing Ed being able to drive around behind the TSBD in search of the men he’d seen “for some time and then leave without being stopped or questioned by authorities,” [Marrs, 83] but also without attempting to communicate with any of the dozens of officers there about the men. Sloan depicts Ed going to “the parking area by the railroad yards,” but leaving the area because of all the “panic” and “mass confusion.” He did not attempt to approach any of the police there because he “didn’t know how to communicate with any of them.” “Instead,” Sloan says, Ed decided to “try to report what he had seen to the police” (!). [Sloan, 20])………

Might the Falcon in the pix be Hoffman's?  It doesn't seem to be a police car.
It is blocked & will probly have to reverse out.  Hoffman had a passenger that day but we can't see a passenger sitting in the car.  The driver might be missing too, its hard to tell. 
In reality Hoffman did not see a tosser & a tossee, hence if that is Hoffman then he must have simply driven over to have a gawk, having no information of any kind that might be of any use.
In other versions of his story Hoffman said that he didn't drive to Dealey Plaza, he went straight to his dentist.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/10267-ed-hoffmans-activities-and-observations/page/18/
Dale Myers wrote……….. ………….. Did you notice that in Eye Witness, Ed states that he saw the limo roar up the entrance ramp, and then turned around again to see the "rifle toss" and flight ... and then turned around again to see the SS follow-up car with Hickey pointing his AR-15 at him? (See the sketches above for an illustration of how far apart the limo and follow-up car were.) ……………

My Comments………… If Dale is correct, & according to my memory of what Hoffman said over the years (June 1967)(march 1977)(about 5 other accounts)(about 5 youtube footages)(2 books)(i haven’t redd the books, but i have seen snippets), we can (ignoring most of the self-contradictions over the years) assemble the following storyline (one of many possible storylines) that Hoffman ………..
1. Sat waiting on the western concrete barrier of the 3-lane Stemmons Overpass.
2. Saw a puff of smoke at the carpark fence (at the time of say Z313).
3. Saw 2 guys with a rifle & a gun in the railway carpark.
4. Saw JFK below him in the limo, with a gaping head-wound, speeding north on the on-ramp.
5. Turned & saw 2 guys execute a rifle-toss in the carpark, & saw 1 run north & then east along railways, & saw 1 walk back east into the carpark.
6. Turned back & saw Hickey below him in the Queen Mary, brandishing an AR15, speeding north on the on-ramp.
7. Ran north towards Officer Brown (on duty up on the railway bridge), to try to alert him of a shooter in the carpark.
8. Continued past Brown, to Hoffman's Falcon, parked on the west shoulder of the on-ramp, just north of the railway bridge.
9. Drove his Falcon east sharply across the lanes of Stemmons (which was still blocked to northbound traffic at the railway bridge),
.......& then drove north-east on the off-ramp,
..........& then drove to the TSBD area (to report the shooters)(& to look for the shooters).
10. Drove around the railway carparks near the TSBD -- didn’t like the commotion, so exited.
11. Drove to the Police building -- but found that it was closed.
12. Gave up -- & drove to his dental appointment.

Some of Hoffman's storyline works ok -- & some bits are impossible.
More to come.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Here are my calculations of some likely or possible timings for likely or possible events.

Z313. Tosser shoots JFK in the head.  Time is 00.0 sec.
Z471. Limo enters triple underpass.
158 frames from Z313 to Z471 at 18.3 fps is 8.6 sec.
76 yd from Z313 to Z471 in 8.6 sec is 18.0 mph.

Z471 to where JFK going north passes Hoffman's Lookout is 254 yd.
At an average speed of  30 mph this takes  17.3 sec ---- add  8.6 sec makes a total of  25.9 sec.
At an average speed of  35 mph this takes  14.8 sec ---- add  8.6 sec makes a total of  23.2 sec.
At an average speed of  40 mph this takes  13.0 sec ---- add  8.6 sec makes a total of  21.6 sec.
At an average speed of  45 mph this takes  11.5 sec ---- add  8.6 sec makes a total of  20.1 sec.
The average speed will have been slow, due to the limo slowing to get directions to the hospital from the lead car which had stopped or nearly.  And there is a bend onto the on-ramp. I reckon that JFK is likely to have taken at least 23 sec from Z313 to Hoffman's Lookout.

From Hoffman's Lookout to the north side of the railway overpass is 100 yd.
At an average speed of  40 mph this takes JFK  5.1 sec.
At an average speed of  45 mph this takes  4.5 sec.
At an average speed of  50 mph this takes  4.1 sec.
At an average speed of  55 mph this takes  3.7 sec.
At an average speed of  60 mph this takes  3.4 sec.
I reckon that it took  4.1 sec.

And the Queen Mary would have been no more that  2 sec behind all the way.

Z313.  Tosser shoots JFK in the head (Hoffman sees puff of smoke) ---- 00.0 sec. ---------- 00.0 sec.
Tosser runs 35 yd & tosses rifle --- 4 yd/s is 8.2 mph ----- -------------- 08.7 sec ------------ 08.7 sec.
Tosser walks north-east & meets Officer Smith -----------------------------17.5 sec ------------ 26.2 sec.
Tosser is questioned by Officer Smith --------------------------------------- 04.0 sec ------------ 30.2 sec.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

I reckon that JFK got to Hoffman's Lookout in 23.0 sec after the last shot at Z313.
And the Queen Mary was 2 sec behind at 25.0 sec.
And 4.1 sec later JFK & Queen Mary were north of the rail bridge (27.1 sec)(29.1 sec).
And a few seconds later (30.1 sec)(32.1 sec) JFK & Queen Mary had passed Hoffman's Falcon (parked he said just north of the rail bridge) & had merged onto Stemmons.
I reckoned that the tosser tosses the rifle to the tossee at 8.7 sec.
And then the tosser meets Officer Smith at 26.2 sec.
So, JFK & Queen Mary passed Hoffman at 23.0 & 25.0, while the tosser was walking to his meeting.
Hoffman said that he saw the toss after JFK went by, & before Queen Mary.
That aint possible. (a) I feel sure that Queen Mary trailed by no more than 2 sec.
(b) Hoffman gave at least 4 versions of the carpark antics of the tosser & tossee over the years, & the antic that i used for my toss being at 8.7 sec is the slowest.

Tosser & Smith have a dialog from 26.2 sec to 30.2 sec.
This was during the same period that JFK was in view of Hoffman when JFK emerged on the on-ramp south of Hoffman at say 22.0 sec, untill JFK passed the rail bridge at 27.1 sec, & Queen Mary passed the rail bridge at 29.1 sec.
So, how did Hoffman keep an eye on the on-ramp & the carpark at the same time?
If Hoffman looked away from the on-ramp say 2 sec after Queen Mary had passed, ie at 27.0 sec, he would not have caught Smith greeting tosser at 26.2.

Anyhow, even if Hoffman had been sitting at the Hoffman Lookout, like he said, there was no tosser or tossee.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Here is where Hoffman said (in his book) that JFK & Queen Mary were, when Queen Mary passed by him.
Here JFK would be over 4.1 sec ahead, instead of the more likely 1 or 2 sec.


Here is where Hoffman said he parked his falcon, on the left shoulder of the on-ramp.
Aerials show a long kerbed grassy area tween the on-ramp & Stemmons.
Hence i reckon that the Falcon was parked at least 50 yd north of the rail bridge.
Unless Hoffman had reversed south to park nearer the rail bridge, ie as per the drawing.




Hoffman's Lookout is shown in the wrong place in this photo (shown as deaf man).


Hoffman met the tosser & tossee on the JFK filmset.


Ed was good at carom.


Hoffman looking north to the rail bridge.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Craig Roberts and Ed Hoffman at the Larry Howard Symposium Kansas October 1994 #JFKassassination
2,422 views Apr 11, 2022 #JFKassassination


What percentage of Ed's statements here on this youtube & over the years were non-true? I reckon very close to 100% was a lie.
At 40:25 he says that the Queen Mary briefly stopped below his lookout, & turned its lights out, when they saw him gesturing.
At 40:25. ……. there were other special services – the other car was coming along behind them -- & the secret service noticed my hands—they noticed u know they stopped -- they turned their lights out – i thort maybe they were trying to motion to me – but they all got out of there very quickly of course -- & that man had already gone down the tracks by this time – so there was no time to let anyone know – so i ran & got in my car & i drove down towards that direction -- & i kept looking for where the man had gone – he had disappeared completely – no one ever found him…..

[Jim Brunsman]

First, I appreciate that you have discovered some interesting photos that contribute to our overall view of the assassination scene. However, you draw many conclusions based on images that could have varying interpretations. You are trying extremely hard to discredit a couple of witnesses that reported disturbing activity behind the picket fence. But what about the rest of the overwhelming evidence that a shot killed our president from that location? What about the scores of witnesses who also heard the shots coming from this location?  Several witnesses ran right up the hill and searched the railroad yards, where Chief Curry instructed the officers to go immediately after the shooting. Who were the first two witnesses to see the president after the shooting? The First Lady and Clint Hill. Both reported a large hole in the back of his head, totally incongruent with a rear shot. What about the acoustics evidence? What about the violent motion of the president's head in the Zapruder film? Answer all those questions and abandon support for the moronic research of Donahue and Myers and maybe we can have a rational discussion...

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

First, I appreciate that you have discovered some interesting photos that contribute to our overall view of the assassination scene. However, you draw many conclusions based on images that could have varying interpretations. You are trying extremely hard to discredit a couple of witnesses that reported disturbing activity behind the picket fence. But what about the rest of the overwhelming evidence that a shot killed our president from that location? What about the scores of witnesses who also heard the shots coming from this location?  Several witnesses ran right up the hill and searched the railroad yards, where Chief Curry instructed the officers to go immediately after the shooting. Who were the first two witnesses to see the president after the shooting? The First Lady and Clint Hill. Both reported a large hole in the back of his head, totally incongruent with a rear shot. What about the acoustics evidence? What about the violent motion of the president's head in the Zapruder film? Answer all those questions and abandon support for the moronic research of Donahue and Myers and maybe we can have a rational discussion...

Zapruder Z313--Z320 shows that a big slab of skull blew out of the top right of JFK's head, & a large part of it hinged forward & a bit right. There was no large hole in the back of his head, just a small entry hole, from an AR15 slug.

Before posting on this forum i read almost all of the old threads & comments going back years. Plus i read almost all of the threads & postings on the Education forum. Plus of course hundreds of hits from google searches. I am amazed at the clever work of many members etc, much smarter than me. However i urge u to simply read my 400 or so postings/comments/replies on this present forum – just click on my name -- & click on my postings. I answer most of your questions.

Re the sounds of shots. Answer this. What is louder. The sound of a shot coming directly from a say 6.5 mm muzzle (with no echoes) – or the sound(s) of the combined echoes of a shot, the echoes coming off large areas of fencing & kerbing & buildings & people etc?
Handy Hint – a gunshot in a soundproof chamber makes very little noise.