The testimony of Miss Victoria Elizabeth ADAMS was taken at 2:15 p.m., on April 7, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. BELIN, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. BELIN - Do you want to stand and raise your right hand, please. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy shah be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Miss ADAMS - I do.
Mr. BELIN - All right. Would you please state your name?
Miss ADAMS - Victoria Elizabeth ADAMS.
Mr. BELIN - Are you known as Vickie ADAMS?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - Where do you live?
Miss ADAMS - 4906 Wenonah, Dallas, Tex.
Mr. BELIN - What is your occupation?
Miss ADAMS - I am employed as an office survey representative.
Mr. BELIN - By whom?
Miss ADAMS - Scott Foresman Co.
Mr. BELIN - Where do you work?
Miss ADAMS - On the fourth floor of the Texas School Book Depository.
Mr. BELIN - Where?
Miss ADAMS - 411 Elm.
Mr. BELIN - That is at the corner of Elm and Houston?
Miss ADAMS - That is correct.
Mr. BELIN - I might ask how old are you?
Miss ADAMS - Twenty-three.
Mr. BELIN - Where were you born originally? In Texas?
Miss ADAMS - San Francisco, Calif.
Mr. BELIN - Did you go to school in San Francisco?
Miss ADAMS - I attended part of my grammar school and high school in San Francisco.
Mr. BELIN - Were you graduated from high school?
Miss ADAMS - In San Francisco, that's correct.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - Following that I entered the Ursaline Order in St. Mary's, Ohio, and I left there as a novice in 1961.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do from there?
Miss ADAMS - I went to Atlanta, Ga. and taught school at the Immaculate Heart of Mary School. And following that I came to Dallas and was employed by the Holiday Inn Central during the summer months, and I obtained a teaching position at St. Monica's School here.
Mr. BELIN - And you taught at St. Monica for some period of time?
Miss ADAMS - Yes; for 1 year.
Mr. BELIN - Then you went to work for Scott Foresman?
Miss ADAMS - I went to work for Scott Foresman.
Mr. BELIN - Were you at work on November 22, 1963?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - Were you aware of the fact that the President's motorcade was going to go right by your building?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - How did you learn of this information?
Miss ADAMS - Through newspaper media and also conversation.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember when you first read about it in the papers?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BELIN - Would it have been before November 22d?
Miss ADAMS - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Where were you when the motorcade passed?
Miss ADAMS - I was at the----
Mr. BELIN - Were you inside or outside the building?
Miss ADAMS - I was inside the building.
Mr. BELIN - What floor?
Miss ADAMS - Fourth floor.
Mr. BELIN - Did you watch the motorcade through a window?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Sometimes that is kind of complicated to try and pick out which window if you are counting from the right or left, so I am going to count from the east side of the building to the west side of the building. Now the windows are separate windows, but they are kind of in pairs, so to speak. Were you standing on the first pair of windows, either-one of those two windows?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Counting from the east side, were you standing in the second pair of windows?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - From the east side, were you standing in the third pair, of either of those windows?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Now, of that third pair, from the east side, would it have been the east window or the west window?
Miss ADAMS - The west window.
Mr. BELIN - So another way, if you don't count in pairs, but count in single units from the east side, you would have been in the sixth window from your left as you were facing out the window, is that correct?
Miss ADAMS - That's right.
Mr. BELIN - Were you standing with anyone
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - With whom?
Miss ADAMS - I was standing with Sandra Styles, Elsie Dorman, and Dorothy May Garner.
Mr. BELIN - Will you state what you saw, what you did, and what you heard?
Miss ADAMS - I watched the motorcade come down Main, as it turned from Main onto Houston, and watched it proceed around the corner on Elm, and apparently somebody in the crowd called to the late President, because he and his wife both turned abruptly and faced the building, so we had a very good view of both of them.
Mr. BELIN - Where was their car as you got .this good view, had it come directly opposite your window? Had it come to that point on Elm, or not, if you can remember
Miss ADAMS - I believe it was prior, just a second or so prior to that.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Miss ADAMS - And from our vantage point we were able to see what the President's wife was wearing, the roses in the car, and things that would attract men's attention. Then we heard---then we were obstructed from the view.
Mr. BELIN - By what?
Miss ADAMS - A tree. and we heard a shot, and it was a pause, and then a second shot, and then a third shot.
It sounded like a firecracker or a cannon at a football game, it seemed as if it came from the right below rather than from the left above. Possibly because of the report. And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock.
Mr. BELIN - When you say on the way out to the Houston Street dock, you mean now you were on the way out?
Miss ADAMS - While I was on the way out.
Mr. BELIN - Was anyone going along with you?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir; Sandra Styles.
That WCR wordage about seeing Shelley & Lovelady was inserted by the WCR, or they forced Adams to say it.
Styles denied ever seeing Shelley & Lovelady whilst leaving the TSBD.
And decades later Adams admitted she had not seen Shelley nor Lovelady.
Mr. BELIN - Sometime after the third shot, and I don't want to get into the actual period of time yet, you went back into the stockroom which would be to the north of where your offices are located on the fourth floor, is that correct?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir; that's correct.
Mr. BELIN - When you got into the stockroom, where did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went to the back stairs.
Mr. BELIN - Are there any other stairs that lead down from the fourth floor other than those back stairs in the rear of the stockroom?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Those stairs would be in the northwest comer of the building, is that correct?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - You took those stairs. Were you walking or running as you went down the stairs?
Miss ADAMS - I was running. We were running.
Mr. BELIN - What kind of shoes did you have on?
Miss ADAMS - Three-inch heels.
Mr. BELIN - You had heels. Now, as you were running down the stairs, did you encounter anyone?
Miss ADAMS - Not during the actual running down the stairs; no, sir.
Mr. BELIN - After you left the Scott Foresman office and went into the stock-room, did you see anyone until you got to the stairs on the fourth floor other than the person you were with?
Miss ADAMS - Outside of our office employees; no.
Mr. BELIN - Would these office employees that you might have seen, all be women?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Then you got to the stairs and you started going down the stairs. You went from the fourth floor to the third floor?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct?
Mr. BELIN - Anyone on the stairs then?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Let me ask you this. As you got to the stairs on the fourth floor, did you notice whether or not the elevator was running?
Miss ADAMS - The elevator was not moving.
Mr. BELIN - How do you know it was not moving on some other floor?
Miss ADAMS - Because the cables move when the elevator is moved, and this is evidenced because of a wooden grate.
Mr. BELIN - By that you mean a wooden door with slats in it that you have to lift up to get on the elevator?
Miss ADAMS - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Did you look to see if the elevator was moving?
Miss ADAMS - It was not; no, sir.
Mr. BELIN - It was not moving?
Miss ADAMS - No.
Mr. BELIN - Did you happen to see where the elevator might have been located?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - As you got to the third floor, did you take a look at the elevator again at all, or not, if you remember?
Miss ADAMS - I can't recall.
Mr. BELIN - As you got off the stairs on the third floor, did you see anyone on the third floor?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Then you immediately went to the stairs going down from the third to the second?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - As you ran down the stairs, did you see anyone on the stairs?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - All right. You got down to the second floor. Did you see anyone by the second floor?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did you immediately turn and run and keep on running down the stairs towards the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - When you got to the bottom of the first floor, did you see anyone there as you entered the first floor from the stairway?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Who did you see?
Miss ADAMS - Mr. Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you see them on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - Well, this is the stairs, and this is the Houston Street dock that I went out. They were approximately in this position here, so I don't know how you would describe that.
Mr. BELIN - You are looking now at a first floor plan or diagram of the Texas School Book Depository, and you have pointed to a position where you encountered Bill Lovelady and Mr. Bill Shelley?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - It would be slightly east of the front of the east elevator, and probably as far south as the length of the elevator, is that correct?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - I have a document here called Commission's Exhibit No. 496, which includes a diagram of the first floor, and there is a No. 7 and a circle on it, and I have pointed to a place marked No. 7 on the diagram. Is that correct?
Miss ADAMS - That is approximate.
Mr. BELIN - Between the time you got off the stairs and the time you got to this point when you say you encountered them, which was somewhat to the south and a little bit east of the front of the east elevator, did you see any other employees there?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Any other people prior to the time you saw them?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Now when you were running down the stairs on your trip down the stairs, did you hear anyone using the Stairs?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did you hear anyone calling for an elevator?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did you see the foreman, Roy Truly? Did you see the superintendent of the warehouse, Roy S. Truly?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir; I did not.
Mr. BELIN - What about any motorcycle police officers?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Now what did you do after you encountered Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady?
Miss ADAMS - I said I believed the President was shot.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember what they said?
Miss ADAMS - Nothing.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded out to the Houston Street dock.
Mr. BELIN - That would be on this same diagram? It is marked Houston Street dock, and you went through what would be the north door, which is towards the rear of the first floor, is that correct?
And down some stairs towards the rear of the dock?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you go from there?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded--which way is east and west?
Mr. BELIN - East is here. East is towards Houston, and west is towards the railroad tracks. You went east or west? Towards the railroad tracks or towards Houston Street?
Miss ADAMS - I went west towards the tracks.
Mr. BELIN - How far west did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."
And he said, "That is tough, get back." I said, "Well, was the President shot?" And he said, "I don't know. Go back." And I said, "All right."
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went back, only I went southwest.
Mr. BELIN - Well, did you come back by way of the street, or did you come back the same entrance you went out?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - You went back in through the front entrance, through the front of the building?
Miss ADAMS - Well, I didn't go back in right away.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do then? There is a street that would be a continuation of Elm Street that goes in front of the building, and Elm Street itself angles into the freeway. Did you go back either of those streets?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir. I went by the one directly in front of the building.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got there?
Miss ADAMS - When I got there, I happened to look around and noticed several of the employees, and I noticed Joe Molina, for one, was standing in front of the building, and also Avery Davis, who works with me, and I said, "What do you think has happened?"
And she said, "I don't know."
And I said, "I want to find out." I think the President is shot.
There was a motorcycle that was parked on the corner of Houston and Elm directly in front of the east end of the building, and I paused-there to listen to the report on the police radio, and they said that shots had been fired which apparently came either from the second floor or the fourth floor window, and so I panicked, as I was at the only open window on the fourth floor.
Mr. BELIN - Did they say second floor or second floor from the top?
Miss ADAMS - It said second floor. So then I decided maybe I had better go back into the building, and going up the stairs---
Mr. BELIN - Now at this time when you went back into the building, were there any policemen standing in front of the building keeping people out?
Miss ADAMS - There was an officer on the stairs itself, and he was prohibiting people from entering the building, that is correct. But I told him I worked there.
Mr. BELIN - Did he let you come back in?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do ?
Miss ADAMS - Following that, I pushed the button for the passenger elevator, but the power had been cut off on the elevator, so I took the stairs to the second floor.
Mr. BELIN - You then went all the way back to the northwest corner of the building and took the same set of stairs you had previously taken to come down, or did you take the stairs by the passenger elevator?
Miss ADAMS - By the passenger elevator.
Mr. BELIN - Do those stairs go above floor 2?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir; they didn't.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got to the second floor?
Miss ADAMS - I went into the Texas School Book Depository office and just listened for a few minutes to the people that were congregating there, and decided there wasn't anything interesting going on, and went out and walked around the hall to the freight elevator meaning the one on the northwest corner.
Mr. BELIN - Would it have been the west or the east? The one nearest the stairs or the other one?
Miss ADAMS - Yes; the one nearest the stairs.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went into the elevator which was stopped on the second floor, with two men who were dressed in suit and hats, and I assumed they were plainclothesmen.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do then?
Miss ADAMS - I tried to get the elevator to go to the fourth floor, but it wasn't operating, so the gentlemen lifted the elevator gate and we went out and ran up the stairs to the fourth floor.
Mr. BELIN - Then you went back to the Scott Foresman Company offices?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Now trying to reconstruct your actions insofar as the time sequence, which we haven't done, what is your best estimate of the time between the time the shots were fired and the time you got back to the building? How much time elapsed? If you have any estimate. Maybe you don't have one.
Miss ADAMS - I would estimate not more than 5 minutes elapsed.
Mr. BELIN - Is there any particular reason why you make this estimation?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir; going down the stairs toward the back, I was running. I ran to the railroad tracks. I moved quickly to the front of the building, paused briefly to talk to someone, listened only to the report of the windows from which the shot supposedly was fired, and returned to the building.
Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?
Miss ADAMS - Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately.
Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was, or do you think it took you to get from the window to the top of the fourth floor stairs?
Miss ADAMS - I don't think I can answer that question accurately, because the time approximation, without a stopwatch, would be difficult.
Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it took you. to get from the window to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - I would say no longer than a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN - So you think that from the time you left the window on the fourth floor until the time you got to the stairs at the bottom of the first floor, was approximately 1 minute?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, approximately.
Mr. BELIN - As I understand your testimony previously, you saw neither Roy Truly nor any motorcycle police officer at any time?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - You heard no one else running down the stairs?
Miss ADAMS - Correct.
Mr. BELIN - When you got to the first floor did you immediately proceed to this point where you say you encountered Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady?
Well, you showed me on a diagram of the first floor that there was a place which was south and somewhat east of the front part of the east elevator that you encountered Truly and Lovelady?
Miss ADAMS - I saw them there.
Mr. BELIN - I mean; you saw them?
Miss ADAMS - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Would that have been a matter of seconds after you got to the bottom of the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - Definitely.
Mr. BELIN - Less than 30 seconds?
Miss ADAMS - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Do you know, or did you know Lee Harvey Oswald either by sight or by name?
Miss ADAMS - I didn't know Lee Harvey Oswald, per se. I didn't know his name. I recognized him after I saw him on television, as having been with some men, but I had no dealing with him.
Mr. BELIN - By that, you mean having been employed with some men by the Texas School Book Depository?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - During the trip down the stairs on the way down did you ever encounter Lee Harvey Oswald?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Is there any other information that you can think of that might be relevant to anything, connected with the assassination?
Miss ADAMS - At the time I left the building on the Houston Street dock, there was an officer standing about 2 yards from the curb, and about from the curb across the street from the Texas School Depository, and about 4 yards from the corner of Houston and Elm, and when we were running out the dock, going around the building, the officer was standing there, and he didn't encounter us or ask us what we were doing or where we were going, and I don't know if that is pertinent.
Mr. BELIN - No one stopped you from getting out of the building when you left?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - That is helpful information. Is there any other information you have that could be relevant?
Miss ADAMS - There was a man that was standing on the corner of Houston and Elm asking questions there. He was dressed in a suit and a hat, and when I encountered Avery Davis going down, we asked who he was, because he was questioning people as if he were a police officer, and we noticed him take a colored boy away on a motorcycle, and this man was asking questions very efficaciously, and we said, "I guess he is maybe a reporter," and later on on television, there was a man that looked very similar to him, and he was identified as Ruby.
And on questioning some police officer, they said they had witnesses to the fact that he was in the Dallas Morning News at the time. And I don't know whether that is relevant or what.
Mr. BELIN - That is all right, we want to get that information down. Was this before you got back in the front door of the building that you saw this?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir; while I was standing by the motorcycles.
Mr. BELIN - Is there anything else?
Miss ADAMS - That is all, I believe.
Mr. BELIN - Miss ADAMS, you have the opportunity if you would like, to read this deposition and sign it before it goes to Washington, or you can waive the signing of it and just let the court reporter send it directly to us. Do you have any preference?
Miss ADAMS - I think I will let you use your own discretion.
Mr. BELIN - It doesn't make any difference to us. If it doesn't make any difference, we can waive it and you won't have to make another trip down here.
Miss ADAMS - That is all right.
Mr. BELIN - We want to thank you for your, cooperation. We know that it has taken time on your part. Would you also thank your employer?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
