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Author Topic: Howard Brennan, the unwrinkled bus transfer, Dallas Transit owner Harry Weinberg  (Read 41357 times)

Offline Bill Brown

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Now I know you are not being serious. Are you really claiming that the sunlight was different from street to street?


Are you really claiming that the amount of sunlight is always the same from street to street?





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Offline Tim Nickerson

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Really? Are you perhaps asking because you are not paying attention?

What's the point of posting photos of a guy walking through areas with shade and sunlight when the police officer who called in the jacket as being white saw it in one location only?

Perhaps your next argument will be that there was no sunlight at the parking lot where the jacket was found

Martin, it seems that you're not the one paying attention here. Your mind has wandered on you. Mrs. Markham's description of the jacket. Remember that? Where was she at the time? Where was the jacket at that time? Was it in full blazing sunlight?

The point of posting photos of a guy walking through areas with shade and sunlight is to demonstrate that the jacket he had on can appear to be white when in full sunlight and brown or tan when in shaded areas.

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Btw.. you never addressed my point that the officer calling in the discovery of the jacket said that the jacket the killer was wearing was believed to be white. Don't you think he would have double checked to make sure that the jacket that was found was also white?

To Griffin, the jacket appeared to be white. When he called in the discovery of what they believed to be the suspect's white jacket, he was going by the description of the suspect that had been called in to Dispatch by Patrolman R.W. Walker at 1:22.

"We have a description on this suspect over here on Jefferson. Last seen about 300 block of East Jefferson. He's a white male, about thirty, five eight, black hair, slender, wearing white jacket, a white shirt and dark slacks."


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Martin, it seems that you're not the one paying attention here. Your mind has wandered on you. Mrs. Markham's description of the jacket. Remember that? Where was she at the time? Where was the jacket at that time? Was it in full blazing sunlight?

The point of posting photos of a guy walking through areas with shade and sunlight is to demonstrate that the jacket he had on can appear to be white when in full sunlight and brown or tan when in shaded areas.

To Griffin, the jacket appeared to be white. When he called in the discovery of what they believed to be the suspect's white jacket, he was going by the description of the suspect that had been called in to Dispatch by Patrolman R.W. Walker at 1:22.

"We have a description on this suspect over here on Jefferson. Last seen about 300 block of East Jefferson. He's a white male, about thirty, five eight, black hair, slender, wearing white jacket, a white shirt and dark slacks."

Martin, it seems that you're not the one paying attention here. Your mind has wandered on you. Mrs. Markham's description of the jacket. Remember that? Where was she at the time? Where was the jacket at that time? Was it in full blazing sunlight?


Tim, you need to read the previous posts again. When you do, you will find that I never mentioned Markham anywhere. You and I were discussing the jacket being found at the parking lot.

But, I'll answer your question nevertheless. It was a sunny afternoon in all of Dallas and to argue that the amount of sunlight was different from street to street is just plain stupid. The sun does not discriminate between streets and the shooting took place when the sun was just about at it's highest position. There can, however, be more shade in one location as the other because of objects blocking the sun, and in a street as 10th there were indeed trees that would provide shade in some areas. It may well have been that the shade could have made the jacket appear darker than it really was, but then again it may just as well be that she did indeed see a brown jacket in full sunlight.

The point of posting photos of a guy walking through areas with shade and sunlight is to demonstrate that the jacket he had on can appear to be white when in full sunlight and brown or tan when in shaded areas.

Nobody is disputing that, but we were talking about the parking lot and parking lots tend to be large open spaces. It would be a bit difficult to park a car there if they weren't, don't you think? But where as a bit a shade might let a jacket appear darker than it really was, I don't believe for a second that one would get the color wrong by seeing a jacket in one location and in bright sunlight.

To Griffin, the jacket appeared to be white. When he called in the discovery of what they believed to be the suspect's white jacket, he was going by the description of the suspect that had been called in to Dispatch by Patrolman R.W. Walker at 1:22.

"We have a description on this suspect over here on Jefferson. Last seen about 300 block of East Jefferson. He's a white male, about thirty, five eight, black hair, slender, wearing white jacket, a white shirt and dark slacks."


How do you know what Griffin was going by? But never mind, you are making my point for me. If Griffin believed the killer was wearing a white jacket, and he sees a jacket that is found at a brightly lit parking lot, he will want to make sure to check it is indeed white before he calls it in as the presumed jacket of the killer, right? And, indeed, to Griffin who saw the jacket in bright sunlight it appeared to be white.....

« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 12:52:21 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Offline Tim Nickerson

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Martin, it seems that you're not the one paying attention here. Your mind has wandered on you. Mrs. Markham's description of the jacket. Remember that? Where was she at the time? Where was the jacket at that time? Was it in full blazing sunlight?


Tim, you need to read the previous posts again. When you do, you will find that I never mentioned Markham anywhere. You and I were discussing the jacket being found at the parking lot.

Martin, I referred to Markham and her viewing of the jacket in the post that you first responded to on this.  Here it is again:

The film showing the jacket was taken at a different time and at a different location than when and where Markham viewed it. The lighting may have differed considerably.


Your response was:

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"Now I know you are not being serious. Are you really claiming that the sunlight was different from street to street?"

As I said, your mind has wandered on you here.

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But, I'll answer your question nevertheless. It was a sunny afternoon in all of Dallas and to argue that the amount of sunlight was different from street to street is just plain stupid. The sun does not discriminate between streets and the shooting took place when the sun was just about at it's highest position. There can, however, be more shade in one location as the other because of objects blocking the sun, and in a street as 10th there were indeed trees that would provide shade in some areas. It may well have been that the shade could have made the jacket appear darker than it really was, but then again it may just as well be that she did indeed see a brown jacket in full sunlight.

You've just contradicted yourself in a single paragraph. "to argue that the amount of sunlight was different from street to street is just plain stupid" vs "It may well have been that the shade could have made the jacket appear darker than it really was"

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The point of posting photos of a guy walking through areas with shade and sunlight is to demonstrate that the jacket he had on can appear to be white when in full sunlight and brown or tan when in shaded areas.

Nobody is disputing that, but we were talking about the parking lot and parking lots tend to be large open spaces. It would be a bit difficult to park a car there if they weren't, don't you think? But where as a bit a shade might let a jacket appear darker than it really was, I don't believe for a second that one would get the color wrong by seeing a jacket in one location and in bright sunlight.

The stills in the graphic put together by John Mytton would beg to differ.



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To Griffin, the jacket appeared to be white. When he called in the discovery of what they believed to be the suspect's white jacket, he was going by the description of the suspect that had been called in to Dispatch by Patrolman R.W. Walker at 1:22.

"We have a description on this suspect over here on Jefferson. Last seen about 300 block of East Jefferson. He's a white male, about thirty, five eight, black hair, slender, wearing white jacket, a white shirt and dark slacks."


How do you know what Griffin was going by?

What else would he be going by?

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But never mind, you are making my point for me. If Griffin believed the killer was wearing a white jacket, and he sees a jacket that is found at a brightly lit parking lot, he will want to make sure to check it is indeed white before he calls it in as the presumed jacket of the killer, right? And, indeed, to Griffin who saw the jacket in bright sunlight it appeared to be white.....

How do you know that Griffin would have bothered to double check on the color of the jacket before reporting it's discovery to dispatch? The jacket appeared to be white to him . He wasn't risking his job by reporting on what he saw and believed.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 02:05:37 AM by Tim Nickerson »

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Martin, I referred to Markham and her viewing of the jacket in the post that you first responded to on this.  Here it is again:

The film showing the jacket was taken at a different time and at a different location than when and where Markham viewed it. The lighting may have differed considerably.


Your response was:

As I said, your mind has wandered on you here.


Now you are just playing games. Our discussion started when you posted the black and white video of a police officer holding the jacket in the parking lot. I never discussed Markham.

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You've just contradicted yourself in a single paragraph. "to argue that the amount of sunlight was different from street to street is just plain stupid" vs "It may well have been that the shade could have made the jacket appear darker than it really was"

And now you pretend to be dense. There was no contradiction. Even if the shade limits the amount of sunshine coming through at some point, the sunshine itself is just the same as it is at another location where there is no shade. When you feel the need to argue at this level, you really have a weak case.

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The stills in the graphic put together by John Mytton would beg to differ.

No, they don't... the pictures show the jacket at several different locations with different shades. I was talking about a jacket being seen at one location and in bright sunlight.

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What else would he be going by?


I have no idea and it doesn't matter.


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How do you know that Griffin would have bothered to double check on the color of the jacket before reporting it's discovery to dispatch? The jacket appeared to be white to him . He wasn't risking his job by reporting on what he saw and believed.

Really? I think you argue for argument's sake, but never mind. There was bright sunlight in the parking lot and Griffin saw a white jacket.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 02:28:48 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Offline Bill Brown

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You've just contradicted yourself in a single paragraph. "to argue that the amount of sunlight was different from street to street is just plain stupid" vs "It may well have been that the shade could have made the jacket appear darker than it really was"

Weidmann is backpedaling instead of admitting he misspoke.

Offline Gary Craig

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Martin, it seems that you're not the one paying attention here. Your mind has wandered on you. Mrs. Markham's description of the jacket. Remember that? Where was she at the time? Where was the jacket at that time? Was it in full blazing sunlight?

The point of posting photos of a guy walking through areas with shade and sunlight is to demonstrate that the jacket he had on can appear to be white when in full sunlight and brown or tan when in shaded areas.

To Griffin, the jacket appeared to be white. When he called in the discovery of what they believed to be the suspect's white jacket, he was going by the description of the suspect that had been called in to Dispatch by Patrolman R.W. Walker at 1:22.

"We have a description on this suspect over here on Jefferson. Last seen about 300 block of East Jefferson. He's a white male, about thirty, five eight, black hair, slender, wearing white jacket, a white shirt and dark slacks."

"The point of posting photos of a guy walking through areas with shade and sunlight is to demonstrate that the jacket he had on can appear to be white when in full sunlight and brown or tan when in shaded areas."



BS It looks like a white jacket whether it's in the bright sunlight or in the shade.

Offline Tim Nickerson

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