Oswald: No power lunch

[Martin Weidmann]

The 6th floor museum has footage of their tests showing that it would take 48 sec for Oswald to walk down to the 2nd floor.
He was ahead of Adams & Styles.

If you want to be gullible...  go ahead. Ignorance is bliss, but you're wrong nevertheless.

Here's a hint; in the tv footage (I think) you refer to, he reaches the 4th floor at 35 seconds after the shots. Adams and Styles needed less than 20 seconds to get to the stairs (on the 4th floor) after the last shot. Do the math.

Btw, Dorothy Garner said that she saw Officer Baker and Mr. Truly come up after the girls went down. If Oswald (or whoever it was) had come down before the women, Baker and Truly would have had to meet the women on the stairs after their lunchroom encounter. Guess what.... they didn't!

[John Mytton]

Jack Dougherty said that he ate lunch in the Domino Room from 12:00 until 12:30 (or shortly before 12:30).
Jack then took a lift to the 6th floor or 5th floor to get stock.
Jack said that he saw LHO twice that day -- (1) entering the building at 8:00 am, & (2) on the 6th floor at about 11:00 am.
Jack did not mention whether Jarman or Norman entered the Domino Room at about 12:10.
Jack did not mention whether Jarman or Norman walked past the Domino Room at about 12:26.

Even though Jack seems to have problems with the chronology of events, which may have just been due to being nervous? and like Oswald, Jack had no alibi which only would have mounted extra pressure.
But Dougherty did get to work an hour early and had extra important responsibilities which means he was trusted as an employee and only adds to his credibility.
Jack does make an interesting revelation during his testimony, he says that some of his fellow employees like Shelley saw Oswald carry a good-sized package which I believe is most certainly true and personally I can't blame any of them for not disclosing that they saw Oswald carry the bag that contained the Presidential murder weapon, because that opens a whole new can of worms like, why they didn't ask Oswald about the unusually long bag and especially on that day.

Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Lee Oswald carry any sort of large package?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't, but some of the fellows said they did.
Mr. BALL - Who said that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, Bill Shelley, he told me that he thought he saw him carrying a fairly good-sized package.
Mr. BALL - When did Shelley tell you that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, it was--the day after it happened.

JohnM

[Mitch Todd]

Estimates are estimates, but you'd at least expect Arnold to be consistent.  I brought it up because you selectively chose to use 12:25 from one version and not 12:15 from another.

No. I never used either estimate. I merely pointed out that Carolyn Arnold was consistent is saying that she had seen Oswald, whether it was at 12:15 or 12:25 or somewhere inbetween.

Well, no. You cherry picked her 12:25 statements and mysteriously forgot to mention the 12:15 ones. In this case, the 10 minute difference is liable to be significant. 

Off the top of my head, only Arnold Rowland is the only person who claimed to see "movement" in any 6th floor window at 12:15. Please see the tête-à-tête [Bill, take note]  I had with Dan O'Meara regarding Rowland.

Brennan also claimed to have seen somebody in the window well before the arrival of the motorcade.

Brennan said that he left his workplace for the Dealey Plaza at 12:18, and arrived at his perch between 12:22 and 12:24. He sighted the man on the 6th floor sometime after that. That put's Brennan's sighting of his rifleman only a few minutes before the appearance of the motorcade. Maybe only a couple of minutes. Maybe even less. But not "well before the arrival of the motorcade", especially in the sense that you'd like to imply. And after 12:15.

And, why do  I have this feeling that you really have no idea what a "normal murder investigation" would entail?

That's an easy question to answer. You are a LN. That's why you have that "feeling"! It has to do with pure bias and nothing to do with reality.

The LNs in this thread really must not like the obvious facts being presented since all of them are now attacking the messenger. Says it all, really!

Sometimes, it's what you don't say that's most important. For instance, look at all the Sturm und Drang you just unloaded from Wonderland's left field. For all that typing, you made no effort whatsoever to rebut my point...which is a good sign that you can't. Your notions as to what constitutes a "normal murder investigation" is no better than the untutored reveries of any other sad sap out there.  The funny part is that you ended it proclaiming your "obvious facts" immediately after parroting a half truth (in Carolyn Arnold's case) and a high-arching incorrectitude (in claiming that  Howard Brennan said he saw someone on the 6th floor "well before" the motorcade showed up.) 

[Alan Ford]

If Oswald at that time was eating his lunch n the second floor then he would have been spotted by many office workers.

Name them!

Yet no one did.

~Grin~ And anyone who says they did you dismiss in kneejerk fashion as not credible---------all because you have your heart set on putting Mr Oswald on six for the shooting.

You still haven't addressed the key point, Mr Rynkiewicz: the fact that Mr Dougherty and Ms Arnold and Ms Stanton all offer support for something (a PRE-motorcade visit to the second-floor lunchroom by Mr Oswald) that no one at that time even knew Mr Oswald had claimed. They didn't say 'I saw him sitting on the front stairs' or '...standing out on the rear loading dock' or '...looking at stuff in the storage room on 1'. No: second-floor lunchroom.

Imagine Mr Oswald had claimed he'd been down in the basement eating lunch alone. And imagine this claim was completely unknown to anyone outside the inner circle of investigators, only seeing the light of day in 2019. And imagine three Depository employees had long before that, and independently of one another, spoken of having seen Mr Oswald in the basement in the timeframe in question.

Wouldn't it be just astounding that a guilty Mr Oswald had managed to predict what three people would later corroborate?

Well, that's where we are with his claim to have visited the second-floor lunchroom before the assassination.

[Alan Ford]

Oswald never had lunch on the 2nd floor, it was for staff.

He was seen there on multiple occasions by multiple people. Do your research before making loose claims!

[Alan Ford]

Jack does make an interesting revelation during his testimony, he says that some of his fellow employees like Shelley saw Oswald carry a good-sized package which I believe is most certainly true and personally I can't blame any of them for not disclosing that they saw Oswald carry the bag that contained the Presidential murder weapon, because that opens a whole new can of worms like, why they didn't ask Oswald about the unusually long bag and especially on that day.

Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Lee Oswald carry any sort of large package?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't, but some of the fellows said they did.
Mr. BALL - Who said that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, Bill Shelley, he told me that he thought he saw him carrying a fairly good-sized package.
Mr. BALL - When did Shelley tell you that?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, it was--the day after it happened.

JohnM

I agree, Mr Dougherty's mention of what Mr Shelley told him he saw cannot be ignored!

Now, Mr Mytton, let us ask ourselves a question:

Why did Mr Shelley himself not say anything to the authorities about his potentially crucial sighting of a "fairly good-sized package" in Mr Oswald's hands?

 

[John Mytton]

I agree, Mr Dougherty's mention of what Mr Shelley told him he saw cannot be ignored!

Now, Mr Mytton, let us ask ourselves a question:

Why did Mr Shelley himself not say anything to the authorities about his potentially crucial sighting of a "fairly good-sized package" in Mr Oswald's hands?

 

I answered that in my text, but if you want to speculate further then be my guest.

JohnM

[Alan Ford]

I answered that in my text, but if you want to speculate further then be my guest.

JohnM

Well, it would depend on the size of the "fairly good-sized package", no?

Let us put the likely case: Mr Shelley saw a fairly good-sized package of the same size as that described by Mr Buell Wesley Frazier, i.e. one not large enough to hold a rifle.

Would his volunteering of this information be apt to be met by the 'investigating' authorities with
a) calm appreciation towards Mr Shelley for having helped them with their investigation?
b) panic?

Answers on a postcard, please!