Oswald: No power lunch

[Bill Chapman]

In my honest opinion, the written notes by the two FBI agents who were in the room trumps Capt. Fritz’s memory.

Also, at least two people, Charles Givens and William Shelly, saw Oswald alone in the lunch room around noon on November 22. (Givens gave conflicting testimony between November 1963 and April 1964).

Being seen downstairs around noon does not preclude Oswald making it back upstairs with plenty of time to spare for him to do what he said he didn't do.

[Bill Chapman]

The only reason for Oswald to be guessing would be to somehow establish an alibi for the time of the shooting. But what would be the purpose for him to somehow concoct an alibi from where he was some 5 minutes prior to the shooting?

Why try and make up an alibi by guessing about something that happened approx 5 minutes prior to the shooting and to just name some people he "guessed" could have been there? None of it makes any sense. Even more so, because it would be utterly stupid to tell this story, if it never happened in the first place, and he had no reasonable expectation of Norman and/or Jarman confirming it.

This whole "he could have guessed it" BS goes nowhere. It has been dreamed up by LNs who can not give a plausible explanation for Norman and Jarman being were Oswald said they were at the time he said they were.

It was possible to see the area of the shipping department behind the elevators through the door opening of the Domino room. Anybody who has seen a diagram of the first floor should know this. In fact, you could see all the way to the other side of the building, where the stairs were. As we know that Norman and Jarman did in fact leave their position on Elm Street, prior to the motorcade's arrivale, and walked on Houston to the back of the building, in order to enter it and take the elevator to the 5th floor, a far more credible explanation for Oswald's statement is that he was indeed in the Domino room at around 12:25, when he saw both men enter the building and walking towards the elevators. He saw them but they just didn't see him. What was written in the various reports were not Oswald's words verbatim, but distorted recollections from people who. most likely, had no first hand knowledge of the lay out of the building.

And Chapman, if you are going to use a photo, at least try to use one from the Domino room and not the 2nd floor lunchroom!

Say please

[Martin Weidmann]

Being seen downstairs around noon does not preclude Oswald making it back upstairs with plenty of time to spare for him to do what he said he didn't do.

Being seen downstairs around noon does not preclude Oswald making it back upstairs

True... he could have gotten to the 6th floor in 5 minutes or so....

But here's the problem (which is why this story, along with Carolyn Arnold's statements, were ignored/dismissed/buried), according to witnesses there was movement in the 6th floor window at about 15 minutes prior to the shots. In other words, at 12:15.... Kinda difficult to explain if Oswald was in the Domino room at around 12:25, right? 

So, maybe he didn't do what he said he didn't do after all..... Unless you have some persuasive evidence to prove he did?

Well, do you have it?

[Martin Weidmann]

Oswald have to "guess" about Jarman and Norman being together? 

Anyone looking out the south facade of the building would have seen them together. And they ended up arriving at the same moment just beneath the SN window

Seems to me that you've never actually been to the building because where Norman and Jarman stood they could not have been seen by somebody on the 6th floor unless that person's torso was hanging out of the window.

And pray tell, how did Oswald guess, that both men, after leaving the front of the building would stay together, walk down Houston and enter the back of the building?

[Mitch Todd]

Being seen downstairs around noon does not preclude Oswald making it back upstairs

True... he could have gotten to the 6th floor in 5 minutes or so....

But here's the problem (which is why this story, along with Carolyn Arnold's statements, were ignored/dismissed/buried), according to witnesses there was movement in the 6th floor window at about 15 minutes prior to the shots. In other words, at 12:15.... Kinda difficult to explain if Oswald was in the Domino room at around 12:25, right? 

So, maybe he didn't do what he said he didn't do after all..... Unless you have some persuasive evidence to prove he did?

Well, do you have it?

Carolyn Arnold never gave a consistent time for her exit from the TSBD. on 11/26 she told the FBI that it was at 12:15 or maybe just before. Four months later, she said she went outside about 12:25.  In 1978, Earl Golz reported that Arnold said she left at about 12:25. But, at about the same time, she was telling Tony Summers that she made her way outside "about a quarter of an hour before the assassination" and "about 12:15." This makes her statements a bad choice for trying to pin down Oswald's whereabouts at a specific time.

[Martin Weidmann]

Carolyn Arnold's never gave a consistent time for her exit from the TSBD. on 11/26 she told the FBI that it was at 12:15 or maybe just before. Four months later, she said she went outside about 12:25.  In 1978, Earl Golz reported that Arnold said she left at about 12:25. But, at about the same time, she was telling Tony Summers that she made her way outside "about a quarter of an hour before the assassination" and "about 12:15." This makes her statements a bad choice for trying to pin down Oswald's whereabouts at a specific time.

Carolyn Arnold's never gave a consistent time for her exit from the TSBD.

So what? Time estimates are seldom perfect (isn't that what you guys constantly are telling us?), but the fact remains that Arnold confirmed to the FBI twice that she saw Oswald prior to the shooting, between 12:15 and 12:25 and stuck to her story. This is relevant because witnesses reported movement in the 6th floor window from 12:15 onwards. In a normal murder investigation such a witness would not be ignored and dismissed out of hand.

[John Mytton]

Seems to me that you've never actually been to the building because where Norman and Jarman stood they could not have been seen by somebody on the 6th floor unless that person's torso was hanging out of the window.

Mr. BELIN. At the time you saw this man on the sixth floor, how much of the man could you see?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, I could see at one time he came to the window and he sat sideways on the window sill. That was previous to President Kennedy getting there. And I could see practically his whole body, from his hips up. But at the time that he was firing the gun, a possibility from his belt up.

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Where in front of the Building do you think they were standing? In the Doorway Foray? They were to the West and across the street.

Oswald didn't "guess" (at least in the form of a statement or utterance) "that both men, after leaving the front of the building would stay together, walk down Houston and enter the back of the building".

You agree, though, that Jarman and Norman ended up together beneath the SN window before the assassination?

They were to the West and across the street.

Across what street?

Mr. JARMAN - I was standing over to the right in front of the building going toward the west.
Mr. BALL - Were you on the sidewalk or curb?
Mr. JARMAN - On the sidewalk.
Mr. BALL - The sidewalk in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.

Mr. NORMAN. We went outside.
Mr. BALL. You went out the front door, did you?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. That is the Elm Street?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where did you stand?
Mr. NORMAN. We stood on the Elm Street sidewalk.
Mr. BALL. On the sidewalk?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes. We didn't go any further than that point.

They were on the sidewalk directly in front of the building and out of sight from the 6th floor window.

Oswald didn't "guess" (at least in the form of a statement or utterance) "that both men, after leaving the front of the building would stay together, walk down Houston and enter the back of the building".

He didn't? That's strange, because some LNs, like John Mytton, have been claiming exactly that. But if you're right, and I think you are, how did Oswald know that Norman and Jarman entered the back of the building (as we know they did) if he wasn't there to see them?

You agree, though, that Jarman and Norman ended up together beneath the SN window before the assassination?

Yes. It's meaningless

Do you agree that Norman and Jarman entered the shipping department of the TSBD through the back door, to take the elevator to the 5th floor around 5 minutes prior to the shots being fired?