Oswald: No power lunch

[Martin Weidmann]

Because it shows that he's lying, which shows that he has something he wishes to hide. The question then becomes: what is it he wishes to hide?

Lying is being deliberately untruthfull. I don't see that here. I think you are looking for something that isn't there.

[Alan Ford]

Lying is being deliberately untruthfull. I don't see that here. I think you are looking for something that isn't there.

I'm not the one looking for a non-existent compatibility between Mr Shelley's accounts!

[Walt Cakebread]

You are making several incorrect assumptions for which there obviously is no evidence.

The first one is that the building was already locked down when Adams and Styles were stopped by a policeman. It wasn't.

The easiest way to block anybody from leaving the building was to stop them as they came down from the loading dock on the only stairs available. If the building had indeed been sealed off when they left it, the women would have been turned back as soon as they came through the back door. and on those stairs.

That's not what happened;

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded out to the Houston Street dock.
Mr. BELIN - That would be on this same diagram? It is marked Houston Street dock, and you went through what would be the north door, which is towards the rear of the first floor, is that correct?
And down some stairs towards the rear of the dock?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you go from there?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded--which way is east and west?
Mr. BELIN - East is here. East is towards Houston, and west is towards the railroad tracks. You went east or west? Towards the railroad tracks or towards Houston Street?
Miss ADAMS - I went west towards the tracks.
Mr. BELIN - How far west did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."
And he said, "That is tough, get back." I said, "Well, was the President shot?" And he said, "I don't know. Go back." And I said, "All right."
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went back, only I went southwest.

This confirms that Adams and Styles were able to leave the building and walk all the way to the railroad yard. In other words, the women left the building when it was not closed off.

Your second incorrect assumption is that the girls did not leave the 4th floor until 12:35 or later.

If the women indeed left the 4th floor at 12:35, or later, it would have been physically impossible for them to (1) go down the stairs, (2) leave the building at the back, (3) walk to the railway yard, (4) being stopped by a police officer, (5) walking around the building to the main entrance on Elm street and for Adams to be there at 12:36 or 12:37 to hear a report on the DPD radio from a police bike parked there.

Also, Dorothy Garner said that Adams went down before she saw Truly and a police man came up. Is it your claim that Truly and Baker did not get to the 4th floor until 12:35 or later?

Your third incorrect assumption is that the women were stopped by Harkness but the DPD radio transcript shows that Harkness was making a call on channel 2 at 12:36 about a witness who said that shots came from the 5th floor of the TSBD.

Dan O posted an excellent map of the TSBD 1st floor........



There appears to be a door at the NW corner of the 1st floor that goes from the 1st floor stairway landing out to the loading dock.    I wonder why Adams and Styles wouldn't have exited the building  through that door?

[Martin Weidmann]

Dan O posted an excellent map of the TSBD 1st floor........



There appears to be a door at the NW corner of the 1st floor that goes from the 1st floor stairway landing out to the loading dock.    I wonder why Adams and Styles wouldn't have exited the building  through that door?

The map shows exactly the distance that Adams and Styles needed to cover from the stairs of the loading platform, around the loading platform in the direction of the railway yard, around the annex warehouse building and down the street in front of the TSBD to the main entrance.

When the women arrived at the main entrance, Styles went straight back into the building without being stopped by police. In other words, before the building was locked down at 12:36 or 12:37.

If the women arrived at the front entrance at 12:36 or 12:37, considering the distance they covered as well as the time needed to go down the stairs, what do you think was the latest time for them to leave the 4th floor?

[Walt Cakebread]

The map shows exactly the distance that Adams and Styles needed to cover from the stairs of the loading platform, around the loading platform in the direction of the railway yard, around the annex warehouse building and down the street in front of the TSBD to the main entrance.

When the women arrived at the main entrance, Styles went straight back into the building without being stopped by police. In other words, before the building was locked down at 12:36 or 12:37.

If the women arrived at the front entrance at 12:36 or 12:37, considering the distance they covered as well as the time needed to go down the stairs, what do you think was the latest time for them to leave the 4th floor?

If the women arrived at the front entrance at 12:36 or 12:37, considering the distance they covered as well as the time needed to go down the stairs, what do you think was the latest time for them to leave the 4th floor?

Based on the information that you've provided....   Adams and Styles would have had to departed the fourth floor immediately following the last shot.   IOW it would have taken them about 6 or 7 minutes to reach the front entrance.   How long did they wait for the passenger elevator before deciding to use the stairs?    A minute?  Two minutes?     

[Walt Cakebread]

The map shows exactly the distance that Adams and Styles needed to cover from the stairs of the loading platform, around the loading platform in the direction of the railway yard, around the annex warehouse building and down the street in front of the TSBD to the main entrance.

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded out to the Houston Street dock.
Mr. BELIN - That would be on this same diagram? It is marked Houston Street dock, and you went through what would be the north door, which is towards the rear of the first floor, is that correct?
And down some stairs towards the rear of the dock?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you go from there?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded--which way is east and west?
Mr. BELIN - East is here. East is towards Houston, and west is towards the railroad tracks. You went east or west? Towards the railroad tracks or towards Houston Street?
Miss ADAMS - I went west towards the tracks.
Mr. BELIN - How far west did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."
And he said, "That is tough, get back." I said, "Well, was the President shot?" And he said, "I don't know. Go back." And I said, "All right."
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went back, only I went southwest.




When the women arrived at the main entrance, Styles went straight back into the building without being stopped by police. In other words, before the building was locked down at 12:36 or 12:37.

If the women arrived at the front entrance at 12:36 or 12:37, considering the distance they covered as well as the time needed to go down the stairs, what do you think was the latest time for them to leave the 4th floor?

[Martin Weidmann]

If the women arrived at the front entrance at 12:36 or 12:37, considering the distance they covered as well as the time needed to go down the stairs, what do you think was the latest time for them to leave the 4th floor?

Based on the information that you've provided....   Adams and Styles would have had to departed the fourth floor immediately following the last shot.   IOW it would have taken them about 6 or 7 minutes to reach the front entrance.   How long did they wait for the passenger elevator before deciding to use the stairs?    A minute?  Two minutes?   

How long did they wait for the passenger elevator before deciding to use the stairs?    A minute?  Two minutes?   

The only evidence there is that they actually waited for the elevator is a statement by Sandra Styles in an interview, several years after the fact. In another interview Styles said - and I am paraphrasing - that if Adams said they left for the stairs straight after the last shot, than that's what probably happened. It shows that Styles is not a reliable witness. Neither Adams or Garner said anything about waiting for the elevator. IMO it didn't happen.

[Walt Cakebread]

How long did they wait for the passenger elevator before deciding to use the stairs?    A minute?  Two minutes?   

The only evidence there is that they actually waited for the elevator is a statement by Sandra Styles in an interview, several years after the fact. In another interview Styles said - and I am paraphrasing - that if Adams said they left for the stairs straight after the last shot, than that's what probably happened. It shows that Styles is not a reliable witness. Neither Adams or Garner said anything about waiting for the elevator. IMO it didn't happen.

I've tried to follow along as Adams describes their route from the bottom of the stairs in the NW corner of the 1st floor to the main entrance in the SE corner.....But I can't understand her route.  In the book "The Girl on the stairs "(  page43)
 Belin--- When you got to the first floor did you immediately proceed to the point where you encountered Mr Shelley and Mr Lovelady?  Well, you showed me a diagram of the first floor that was a place which was south and somewhat east of the front part of the east elevator that you encountered Truly and Lovelady? 

Miss Adams---I saw them

Belin---I mean; you saw them?

Miss Adams   Yes.

Why would Belin change Shelley to Truly?    Do you think he was simply confused or was he atempting to confuse Vickie Adams?