I guess Martin loves his "timelines." Right off, I see a problem with this one.
The "problems" you see are imaginary. Ever since you implicitely claimed, in another thread, that the ambulance that took Tippit to the hospital was driving at 30 mph, I'm having a hard time taking anything you say seriously.
I said that the ambulance averaged about 30mph. You seem not to realize that they have to slow down quite a bit to make corners and while crossing major intersections. It doesn't help the patient to roll the ambulance or be t-boned by cross traffic while running a red light. Those slowdowns affect their average speed more that you might think. Also, they started at 0 mph and ended at the same speed. An overweight station wagon relying on early 1960's drivetrain, suspension, and braking technology isn't going to respond to driver inputs like a modern F1 car. It's not going to rocket ahead, and the driver will have to think ahead before decelerating to give the car enough room and time to decelerate. It can't be thrown around city streets like a Lewis Hamilton track day. I'm sure that they went as fast as they could, but that's not liable to be as fast as some people want to imagine.
Shelley and Lovelady, for their part, recalled a their circuitous path to the rear of the TSBD as follows:
1.) At the last shot sounded, they were standing in the TSBD entryway. They remained there until Gloria Calvery ran up and announced that JFK had been shot. Lovelady estimated that this was about 3 minutes after the shots. It couldn't have been near much of a delay: Loevelady said that he saw Baker headed into the TSBD as he was moving towards the west end of Old Elm.
2.) Shelley and Lovelady then crossed the street in front of the Depository (not Elm street, but the the stub of Old Elm that leads to the parking lot on the GK)
3.) They then turned west and went to the edge of the rail yards
4.) After watching the activity going on in in that area, Lovelady and Shelley then went back to the TSBD and re-entered the building through a back door.
And that took an estimated five minutes after the shots. It couldn't have been much more because at around 12:36 the back of the building was sealed off.
Lovelady testified that, when he entered the building, he saw one of the Scott-Foresman girls. He thought it was Adams, but wasn't sure.
No, Lovelady didn't testify that. He did not say he thought it was Adams.
Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.
Mr. BALL - Who is Vickie?
Mr. LOVELADY - The girl that works for Scott, Foresman.
He, in fact, said - without being asked specifically - that he wouldn't swear it was Vickie. Now why would he say that, when he wasn't asked? Could it be the WC lawyers had already talked to him prior to his testimony and he simply did not feel comfortable naming somebody just because they wanted him to?
Even if Lovelady was off as to the initial delay before he and Shelley took off to the west, all of that movement took a while. Further, He saw Baker headed into the building as he and Shelley were running away from it.
So what?
When you put all of this together, Adams and Styles have reached the first floor after Baker and Truly passed by going up. And after Oswald had made it to the lunch room on the second floor.
Non sequitur. Dorothy Garner told Martha Strout a different story. Your story, as so often, does not match all the known facts. Also for this to be even remotely true, quod non, Adams and Styles would have had to wait until Baker and Truly had reached the 4th floor and gone up the the 5th and Adams testified she did not see Truly or a motorcycle police officer at any time, which would be strange if the men had come up to the 4th floor and Adams and Styles were still there.
Adams also testified that, after she had circled around the outside of the TSBD, she heard a broadcast on a police motorcycle radio "said that shots had been fired which apparently came either from the second floor or the fourth floor window". She said that this news concerned her, since she had been "at the only open window on the fourth floor." On the DPD recordings, the second floor isn't identified as a possible shooting location until 12:38, and the 4th floor isn't mentioned until 12:40 (both transmissions on channel two, BTW).
And this is where your "theory" falls apart. Shelley and Lovelady returned to the building at around 12:35 or 12:36, just before the back of the building was sealed off by police. For Adams and Styles to see them at that moment, they most likely wouldn't have made it out of the building. But let's, for argument's sake, say they did, the girls were on heels and had the walk around three sides of the building, over railway tracks and talk to a police man who stopped them (in the railway yard). There is no way that Adams and Styles could have made it to the front entrance in two minutes.
Even worse, Styles entered the building straight away and was not stopped. That means she got there before the building was locked down (which apparently happened at 12:36)! Adams hung around outside to talk to some girls and it was then that she heard the radio broadcast. When she, subsequently, tried to enter the building it was sealed off and she was initally stopped.
Your timeline doesn't add up and does not match the known facts. That's what happens when you try to focus on one piece of uncorroborated information and ignore everything else.
It seems you simply do not understand or want to understand how the timeline fits together, so let me try to explain by asking some questions, you probably will not answer.
1. The front entrance of the building was sealed off at around 12:36. Sandra Styles was not stopped when she entered the building. Do you agree that Styles (and Adams) must have arrived at the front entrance at 12:36 at the latest?
2. If Adams and Styles arrived at the front entrance at 12:36 at the latest, do you agree they must have exited the building at the back at least three minutes earlier (given the fact that they walked three sides of the building), which means at around 12:33?
3. If Adams and Styles did in fact leave the building at 12:23 (or perhaps even earlier), how could Adams have seen Shelley and Lovelady entering the building at around 12:35?
My timeline provides the most probable explanation for this discrepancy; Adams and Styles saw Shelley and Lovelady, not when the men entered the building, but when they were still standing on the railway yard, where Adams and Styles passed them on their way to the front of the building. Witnesses do not always get everything correct, even in their testimony under oath.
Your position is based on the notion that there was a "lockdown" and/or "the building was sealed off" at 12:36. (Yeah, I know you weasel it out to "about 12:36" at some point, buy you always refer back to 12:36 as a hard point.)
The 12:36 comes ultimately comes from DV Harkness' channel two transmission (it also appears on channel one as an instance of the acoustically-coupled crosstalk that figures prominently in the acoustic analysis debate). This transmission is commonly rendered as "Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository Store and Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building." This rendering is incorrect. The transmission really says, "I have a witness that says they came from the fifth floor of the Texas Depository bookstore at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now, we're going to seal off the building." All we know about what's going on at 12:36 is that someone intends to "seal off" the building. Not that it is being done at that moment, and definitely not that it has been already been done.
Harkness testified that after the shots, he first drove his motorcycle west on Main all the way to Industrial, then he turned around, came back to Dealey Plaza, and wound up driving west down Old Elm all the way to the fence on the GK. There, he encountered Amos Euins. He took Euins' statements broadcast them via radio. This is the "12:36" broadcast in Harkness' testimony. He then put Euins on his bike and drove Euins to Sawyer's' car, which was parked in front of the Depository. Once there, Harkness got Euins off the bike, put him in Sawyer's car, got Sawyer's attention and explained Euins' situation. Only then does Harkness go to "seal off" the "back of the building." Even then, it's going to take some time for him to get into position. All of this activity, from transmission get taking position behind the building, would easily consume another minute, maybe another two or three. Instead of Harkness sealing off any part of the building at 12:36, it's really more like 12:37 at the earliest. Maybe 12:38. Or 12:39. Maybe even later.
One minute of Channel two air time after the Harkness transmission, LL Hill radios the channel 2 dispatcher to assign officers to "cover this school depository building." They still don't have the personnel to seal it off at that point and are requesting the officers needed to do it. More evidence that the "lockdown" wasn't locking anything at 12:36.
In reality, there is no good reason to claim that the building was sealed off, locked down, covered, etc. at 12:36 or even at "about 12:36." All we can say is that the building was surrounded and sealed off at some point
after 12:36.
BTW, Harkness also has a somewhat interesting idea of what "seal off the building" means. Consider this exchange:
Mr. BELIN - When you told Inspector Sawyer that you had a witness that said the shot came from the building, up to that particular moment, had the front part of the building been sealed off yet?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - It had already been sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - There was two officers with Inspector Sawyer at the front.
Mr. BELIN - Were they stopping people from going in and out?
Mr. HARKNESS - I don't know.
Mr. BELIN - You don't know?
Mr. HARKNESS - No, sir; I don't know that, because I didn't go up and talk to them.
According to Harkness' logic, "sealing off" a building means nothing more than having a couple of cops standing around next to it. It doesn't help us know exactly when the cops out front started to actively control people entering and exiting the front door. Even then, they didn't do a very good job of it: Vickie Adams was able to get past a cop at the door merely by saying she worked in the building, and without needing someone like Shelley or Truly vouching for her residency in the building. That's not much in the way of a "lockdown."
I should probably add that there is no good reason to believe that the DPD on-site at the TSBD went from 0% lockdown to 100% lockdown in an instant. Nor is there a good reason to assert that the cordon was uniformly enforced at any given time until its final form emerged. Harkness' testimony and LL Hill's broadcast imply that officers were assigned piecemeal as they arrived. Harkness testimony indicates that, at least initially, the officers assigned to cordon off the building weren't given particularly clear or detailed instructions, other than just surrounding the building. I think it safe to assume that they would have instinctively figured that the object was to cover avenues of escape in the event that the perpetrator were still in the building. But that doesn't mean they automatically understood that they needed to keep everyone out, at least in the beginning.
And there's one more thing to consider:
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded out to the Houston Street dock.
Mr. BELIN - That would be on this same diagram? It is marked Houston Street dock, and you went through what would be the north door, which is towards the rear of the first floor, is that correct?
And down some stairs towards the rear of the dock?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you go from there?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded--which way is east and west?
Mr. BELIN - East is here. East is towards Houston, and west is towards the railroad tracks. You went east or west? Towards the railroad tracks or towards Houston Street?
Miss ADAMS - I went west towards the tracks.
Mr. BELIN - How far west did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."
And he said, "That is tough, get back." I said, "Well, was the President shot?" And he said, "I don't know. Go back." And I said, "All right."
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went back, only I went southwest.
So, she heads north until she gets to the north corner of the TSBD, then turns west. Before she gets very far, she is confronted by a police officer who tells her "get back to the building." She then gets to Old Elm by travelling southwest. That latter bit indicates that she skirted the angled west side on the TSBD. In turn, it indicates that the confrontation with the police officer must have occurred very close to the TSBD. That is precisely what I would expect if she had run into the cordon being established by Harkness and the other two officers detailed to him for that purpose. Adams' testimony, then, indicates that she didn't exit the building until after the cordon began to be established. And if Harkness and his two guys weren't in position until after 12:36, Adams could not have left the building until after Harkness' 12:36 broadcast.
So, let's go back to your three questions:
1. The front entrance of the building was sealed off at around 12:36. Sandra Styles was not stopped when she entered the building. Do you agree that Styles (and Adams) must have arrived at the front entrance at 12:36 at the latest?There is no reason to believe that the building was "locked down" at 12:36. In fact, the evidence indicates that this happened at some point after 12:36. Also, Adams' testimony indicates that she did not leave the building until after a cordon was already being esatablished.
2. If Adams and Styles arrived at the front entrance at 12:36 at the latest, do you agree they must have exited the building at the back at least three minutes earlier (given the fact that they walked three sides of the building), which means at around 12:33?Depends on the assumptions stated in question 1. Those assumptions have been shown to be unwarranted, so this question is invalid from the get go.
3. If Adams and Styles did in fact leave the building at 12:33 (or perhaps even earlier), how could Adams have seen Shelley and Lovelady entering the building at around 12:35? This also depends on your unwarranted assumptions in question one.
Adams testified that she saw Lovelady and Shelley on the first floor. She was allowed to review her testimony in print, and she literally signed off on it with not objections as to her testimony as to Lovelady and Shelley's presence in the first floor.
Dorothy Garner told Martha Strout a different storyTruly testified that, as he came back down the stairs from the roof, he ran into another DPD officer on the 4th floor who had climbed up at some point after Truly and Baker. I would suggest that Garner saw this and would later put the wrong 2 + 2 together after hearing about the initial Truly/Baker effort.
Your story, as so often, does not match all the known facts. You're the last guy who needs to cast stones. You house has good shatter insurance, does it?
Also for this to be even remotely true, quod non, Adams and Styles would have had to wait until Baker and Truly had reached the 4th floor and gone up the the 5th and Adams testified she did not see Truly or a motorcycle police officer at any time, which would be strange if the men had come up to the 4th floor and Adams and Styles were still there. Adams and Styles were looking out through a window in an office on the south side of the building. The stairwell was on the north side, with at least one wall and a stockroom full of books in between. There is no reason to expect Styles and Adams to have noticed someone coming up the stairwell on the far side of the building with so much obstruction in the way.
