Oswald: No power lunch

[Mitch Todd]

Let's recap

Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?
Miss ADAMS - Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately

<>

Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it took you. to get from the window to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - I would say no longer than a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN - So you think that from the time you left the window on the fourth floor until the time you got to the stairs at the bottom of the first floor, was approximately 1 minute?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, approximately.

Prior to her testimony, Adams told the investigators;

On 11/24/63 FBI agents Hardin and Scott wrote in their FD 302 report that Adams had said;

"She and her friend then ran immediately to the back of the building to where the stairs were located and ran down the stairs"

On 02/17/64 she told Jim Leavelle;

"After the third shot I went out the back door" and "The elevator was not running and there was no one on the stairs"

and on 03/23/64 she told the FBI

"After the third shot I observed the car carrying President Kennedy speed away. Sandra Styles and I then ran out of the building via the stairs"

In all these statements, Adams is perfectly consistent in saying that she and Styles ran to the stairs after the third shot

And Sandra Styles backs her up. In her statement to the FBI of 03/23/64 she said;

"I heard shots but thought at the time that they were fireworks. I was unaware of the place the shots came from. I saw people running and others lie down on the ground and realized something was happening but did not know exactly what was happening. Victoria Adams and I left the office at this time, went down the back stairs and left the building at the back door.

And then of course there is Dorothy Garner who, according to Martha Stroud, said she saw Baker and Truly come up after the girls (Adams and Styles) had gone down. Garner explained to Barry Ernest that she did not actually see the girls go down, but she could hear them on the noisy stairs.

Mitch Todd's claim that Adams and Styles stayed on the 4th floor until at least 12:36, when police began locking down the building and an officer told Adams to return to the building is destroyed by the testimony of Officer Barnett, who ran to the back of the building, after hearing the shots and saw officers searching the railroad cars, which means there were officers in the railway yard prior to the building being locked down.

Todd's claim also does not match with Shelley's testimony who said that before he and Lovelady re-entered the TSBD he saw cars being searched in the railway area, clearly indicating police activity very soon after the shots were fire.

And then we have Adams saying in her testimony;

Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir. I went by the one directly in front of the building.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got there?
Miss ADAMS - When I got there, I happened to look around and noticed several of the employees, and I noticed Joe Molina, for one, was standing in front of the building, and also Avery Davis, who works with me, and I said, "What do you think has happened?"

How in the world can Adams see Molina and Davis when they re-entered the building shortly after the shots?

Most of this is retread. But I wanted to single this one statement out:

Mitch Todd's claim that Adams and Styles stayed on the 4th floor until at least 12:36, when police began locking down the building and an officer told Adams to return to the building is destroyed by the testimony of Officer Barnett, who ran to the back of the building, after hearing the shots and saw officers searching the railroad cars, which means there were officers in the railway yard prior to the building being locked down.

I have no idea why Weidmann thinks that Barnett's testimony "destroys" anything. While he says that he "looked behind the building and I saw officers searching the railroad cars," he also said "but there was no sign they were going into the building or watching the building, so I decided I was the only one watching the building."

So the guys that Barnett sees in the rail yards aren't interested in the TSBD, or in watching it, which is what Martin needs to happen. The Darnell and Martin films show the law enforcement activity west of the Depository in the immediate aftermath of the assassination; it's focused on the North-South tracks west of Bower's tower, not near the TSBD. The Darnell film also shows the cars being searched, a line of passenger cars west of the parking lot.

Then it gets kind of confusing:

Mr. BARNETT:   "...So since this was the only fire escape and there were officers down here watching the this back door, I returned back around to the front to watch the front of the building and the fire escape. Then I decided maybe I had been wrong, so I saw the officers down here searching."

Mr. LIEBELER: You mean the officers went on down toward No. 5 on your Exhibit No. 354?

The Number "5" on CE354 is at the West end of Old Elm, BTW.

So, Barnett first says that he's the only guy watching the back of the building, then says there were other officers watching the back door. That doesn't exactly make sense to begin with, but  it leads to another problem aside from the self-contradiction. Multiple officers at the rear of the Depository would imply that this was much later on, when there were enough officers to put a team of guys out back.

[Dan O'meara]

The guys wearing white helmets, jodhpurs, and boots are riding two wheelers. In the photos and films, you'll see that the guys on three-wheelers are all wearing white hats rather than helmets. The patrol division guys are the ones with green shoulder tabs; traffic division officers have red tabs.

So the officer in the foreground of Willis 8 would be a traffic division officer (red tabs)?

I know what you mean about Barnett's testimony. Something is odd in there about the Sergeant. But the channel 2 recording is what it is.

It's hard to know what to think.
It seems unlikely Barnett wouldn't know his own sergeant.
It seems equally unlikely Howard would be around the TSBD if his assignment was near the Trade Mart.
A scenario where Howard rushes away from the scene of the assassination to pick up some "No Parking" signs elsewhere isn't going to fly.

The thing is, if you compare Barnett's description of Brennan's approach, Brennan doesn't mention a sergeant. However, Brennan does mention that Barnett led him to Forrest Sorrels at the front of the Depository. Sorrels returned to the TSBD about 12:45. Barnett leading Brennan to Sorrels would also indicate that Barnett's testimony covers a much longer span of time than he remembered.

Barnett said that all three of them rushed to the TSBD steps and, more importantly, he kept Brennan with him on the steps.
This seems to be confirmed by various Murray pics:



In the above pic Brennan (arrow) leans against the wall of TSBD entrance.



Brennan now seems to be moving down the steps

share image

If you look closely in the above pic you can make out (who I assume to be) Brennan and Sawyer in Sawyer's car
Sorrels supports Barnett's testimony with his own:

"I asked for the manager, and I was directed to Mr. Truly. He was standing there.
I went up and identified myself to him. I said, "I want to get a stenographer, and we would like to have you put down the names and addresses of every employee of the building, in the building."
And I then walked on out the front door and asked, "Did anyone here see anything?"
And someone pointed to Mr. Brennan."

It appears Brennan was waiting on the steps when Sorrels arrived.
One thing I have just noticed (this is a real testament to my powers of observation), Brennan cannot be seen in Willis 8 or Skaggs 2.

[Ray Mitcham]

Quote by Dan
"
"I asked for the manager, and I was directed to Mr. Truly. He was standing there.
I went up and identified myself to him. I said, "I want to get a stenographer, and we would like to have you put down the names and addresses of every employee of the building, in the building."
And I then walked on out the front door and asked, "Did anyone here see anything?"
And someone pointed to Mr. Brennan."


They could ask for a stenographer tp get the names witnesses but couldn't do the same when interviewing Oswald.

What a strange Police Dept.

[Martin Weidmann]

Most of this is retread. But I wanted to single this one statement out:

Mitch Todd's claim that Adams and Styles stayed on the 4th floor until at least 12:36, when police began locking down the building and an officer told Adams to return to the building is destroyed by the testimony of Officer Barnett, who ran to the back of the building, after hearing the shots and saw officers searching the railroad cars, which means there were officers in the railway yard prior to the building being locked down.

I have no idea why Weidmann thinks that Barnett's testimony "destroys" anything. While he says that he "looked behind the building and I saw officers searching the railroad cars," he also said "but there was no sign they were going into the building or watching the building, so I decided I was the only one watching the building."

So the guys that Barnett sees in the rail yards aren't interested in the TSBD, or in watching it, which is what Martin needs to happen. The Darnell and Martin films show the law enforcement activity west of the Depository in the immediate aftermath of the assassination; it's focused on the North-South tracks west of Bower's tower, not near the TSBD. The Darnell film also shows the cars being searched, a line of passenger cars west of the parking lot.

Then it gets kind of confusing:

Mr. BARNETT:   "...So since this was the only fire escape and there were officers down here watching the this back door, I returned back around to the front to watch the front of the building and the fire escape. Then I decided maybe I had been wrong, so I saw the officers down here searching."

Mr. LIEBELER: You mean the officers went on down toward No. 5 on your Exhibit No. 354?

The Number "5" on CE354 is at the West end of Old Elm, BTW.

So, Barnett first says that he's the only guy watching the back of the building, then says there were other officers watching the back door. That doesn't exactly make sense to begin with, but  it leads to another problem aside from the self-contradiction. Multiple officers at the rear of the Depository would imply that this was much later on, when there were enough officers to put a team of guys out back.

I have no idea why Weidmann thinks that Barnett's testimony "destroys" anything.

Of course you don't. You're an LN and will never accept anything that does not match your narrative.

So the guys that Barnett sees in the rail yards aren't interested in the TSBD, or in watching it

And there's another one of Todd's selfserving, yet erroneous, assumptions. The fact of the matter is that Barnett confirms that there were policemen behind the TSBD within two minutes of the shooting. Todd doesn't know what they were interested in and I would argue they were most likely interested in anything and everything out of the ordinary, like for instance a guy running out the back of a building. But none of that really matters.

They don't have to be particularly interested in the TSBD, nor is it a requirement for a cop at a crime scene, to be particularly interested in something, to tell some civilians what to do or where to go. There is nothing irregular or strange about a cop who sees two women coming from a building telling them to go back to that building. And that's exactly what happened to Adams and Styles. If the cop had been part of some lock down team, as Todd prefers to claim, he would have told them to go back in the same way they came out. But as this was a cop checking out the railway area, he had no problem with Adams and Styles going to the front of the building after he told them to return to the building.

The Darnell and Martin films show the law enforcement activity west of the Depository in the immediate aftermath of the assassination; it's focused on the North-South tracks west of Bower's tower, not near the TSBD.

And there's is yet another assumption. Unless the Darnell and Martin films show us all the cops in the railway area, you don't know where, if anywhere in particular, the search was focused on, nor do you know if there were officers near the TSBD that were not recorded on film.

No matter how much you want to twist and turn this thing, Barnett is clear; after the shots he ran away from Elm, down Houston, mainly watching the fire escape of the TSBD. When he came near the back of the building he saw other officers and then ran back to the corner of Elm and Houston where he arrived an estimated 2,5 minutes after the shots. The meaning of this is simple; there were officers behind the TSBD within two minutes of the shots.

So, Barnett first says that he's the only guy watching the back of the building, then says there were other officers watching the back door. That doesn't exactly make sense to begin with, but  it leads to another problem aside from the self-contradiction. Multiple officers at the rear of the Depository would imply that this was much later on, when there were enough officers to put a team of guys out back. 

And yet again another selfserving assumption. How in the world does Barnett saying that there were officers watching the back door imply that it was much later on? The answer is of course that it doesn't. When Barnett talks about officers he could be speaking about as little as two men.

Btw where does Barnett actually say that he was the only guy watching the back of the building? In his testimony he said he thought he was the only one watching the building, but that was after he saw officers in the front, going west on Old Elm street, who he believed were not entering or watching the building.

Also, there is no contradiction in what Barnett said.

Mr. BARNETT - I went looked behind the building and I saw officers searching the railroad cars. I looked around in front towards the front of the building and I saw officers going west.
Mr. LIEBELER - Going west down the little street there in front of the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. BARNETT - Yes; but there was no sign they were going into the building or watching the building, so I decided I was the only one watching the building. So since this was the only fire escape and there were officers down here watching the this back door, I returned back around to the front to watch the front of the building and the fire escape. Then I decided maybe I had been wrong, so I saw the officers down here searching.

Barnett clearly says he was looking towards the front of the building when he saw officers who he believed were not going into the building or even watching the building. As he had seen officers watching the back door (presumably of the TSBD) he ran to the front of the building and then decided he had been wrong about no officers going inside the building or watching it at the front

[Rick Plant]

Good observation.

It wouldn't have taken Barnett more than 30 seconds to run from the back of the building to the corner of Elm and Houston, where No. 8 is located on CE 354   https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pdf/WH16_CE_354.pdf

Which means there were cops at the back of the TSBD within 2 minutes after the shots and Howard may well have been one of them. Who most certainly wasn't one of them was Harkness, who did not get there until 12.36 at the earliest. By roughly that time, Styles had already re-entered the TSBD through the front entrance.

Probably less than 30 seconds if Barnett was fast enough. 

[Mitch Todd]

So the officer in the foreground of Willis 8 would be a traffic division officer (red tabs)?

The one in the midground looks to be a traffic division guy. The one in the immediate foreground on the right is a patrol division officer. 

It's hard to know what to think.
It seems unlikely Barnett wouldn't know his own sergeant.
It seems equally unlikely Howard would be around the TSBD if his assignment was near the Trade Mart.
A scenario where Howard rushes away from the scene of the assassination to pick up some "No Parking" signs elsewhere isn't going to fly.

I double checked the various Lumpkin/Batchelor/Lawrence exhibits, just to make sure there wasn't a second Sgt Howard in the DPD. There was indeed only one Sgt Howard. There was a Ptm Howard in the patrol division, but he wouldn't fit Barnett's description. I also looked at the normal November assignments/org chart in Batchelor  ex. 5002. Barnett wasn't under Howard or in even in the same subdivision as Howard. Barnett was also not normally under Harkness, nor in the same group. Barnett doesn't appear to have been assigned to the 11/22 motorcade no parking group working under Howard. Given this, there seems to be no reason for Barnett to refer to Howard as "my sergeant" in any case. Which leads to the question, what is he really describing? Did he just misname someone else? Or is he conflating one event with another that happened much later?

Barnett said that all three of them rushed to the TSBD steps and, more importantly, he kept Brennan with him on the steps.
This seems to be confirmed by various Murray pics:



In the above pic Brennan (arrow) leans against the wall of TSBD entrance.



Brennan now seems to be moving down the steps

share image

If you look closely in the above pic you can make out (who I assume to be) Brennan and Sawyer in Sawyer's car
Sorrels supports Barnett's testimony with his own:

"I asked for the manager, and I was directed to Mr. Truly. He was standing there.
I went up and identified myself to him. I said, "I want to get a stenographer, and we would like to have you put down the names and addresses of every employee of the building, in the building."
And I then walked on out the front door and asked, "Did anyone here see anything?"
And someone pointed to Mr. Brennan."

It appears Brennan was waiting on the steps when Sorrels arrived.
One thing I have just noticed (this is a real testament to my powers of observation), Brennan cannot be seen in Willis 8 or Skaggs 2.

If that is Sawyer and Brennan in the car, do you think that the photo would have been taken at about the time that Sawyer radioed in with the first description of the suspect in the shooting at 12:44? And what would that mean for Barnett's timing?

[James Hackerott]

Jim Murray took photos from the grassy infield that include Marilyn Sitzman when she was interviewed by a news reporter near the Zapruder pedestal. He then took a series of close up photos of the action about the south Elm storm drain from 12:39-12:40 (Trask “That Day in Dallas”). From there Murray climbed the south knoll near the triple underpass, at approximately 10:40-10:41. Then he followed the action at the TSBD doorway, capturing the image of Howard Brennan standing at the doorway’s east wall. I estimate that time could be about 12:41-12:42. Robin Unger’s photo site includes this photo with a print media caption indicating 12:42. This photo does not appear to yet include Marilyn Sitzman at the sidewalk corner in two photos Murray took at this time.

https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_10435.jpg
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2013.msg54679.html#msg54679
https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_Murray.jpg

[Dan O'meara]

The one in the midground looks to be a traffic division guy. The one in the immediate foreground on the right is a patrol division officer. 
I double checked the various Lumpkin/Batchelor/Lawrence exhibits, just to make sure there wasn't a second Sgt Howard in the DPD. There was indeed only one Sgt Howard. There was a Ptm Howard in the patrol division, but he wouldn't fit Barnett's description. I also looked at the normal November assignments/org chart in Batchelor  ex. 5002. Barnett wasn't under Howard or in even in the same subdivision as Howard. Barnett was also not normally under Harkness, nor in the same group. Barnett doesn't appear to have been assigned to the 11/22 motorcade no parking group working under Howard. Given this, there seems to be no reason for Barnett to refer to Howard as "my sergeant" in any case. Which leads to the question, what is he really describing? Did he just misname someone else? Or is he conflating one event with another that happened much later?

If that is Sawyer and Brennan in the car, do you think that the photo would have been taken at about the time that Sawyer radioed in with the first description of the suspect in the shooting at 12:44? And what would that mean for Barnett's timing?

The clip below shows the moment Sawyer takes Brennan to the car.
In the background the large gates of the TSBD are closed.
In the Martin film these gates are open.
This seems to back up the assertion that the pic of Brennan in the car was at some point just before Sawyer makes the call with the suspect's description.



LATER EDIT:

In the above clip there are two police officers. I am very confident the one with the cigarette in his hand is Sawyer.
The other, judging by the insignia on his sleeve, is a sergeant. Could this be Sergeant Howard? If not, then maybe Harkness.