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Author Topic: What a Conspiracy Theorist Needs to Do to be Taken Seriously.  (Read 7839 times)

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: What a Conspiracy Theorist Needs to Do to be Taken Seriously.
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2021, 09:22:53 PM »
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You apparently missed the point of the above locations being in quotes

Apparently.

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Re: What a Conspiracy Theorist Needs to Do to be Taken Seriously.
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2021, 09:22:53 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: What a Conspiracy Theorist Needs to Do to be Taken Seriously.
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2021, 09:36:29 PM »
Sorry that I can't shoe-horn word-salads in-between those quotation marks.

Hint, hint..
« Last Edit: November 13, 2021, 09:39:38 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: What a Conspiracy Theorist Needs to Do to be Taken Seriously.
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2021, 10:08:36 PM »
No problem

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Re: What a Conspiracy Theorist Needs to Do to be Taken Seriously.
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2021, 10:08:36 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: What a Conspiracy Theorist Needs to Do to be Taken Seriously.
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2021, 10:28:05 PM »
No problem

Ditto

Oh, wait... let me leave you my calling card:


billchapman/hunter of trolls

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: What a Conspiracy Theorist Needs to Do to be Taken Seriously.
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2021, 02:56:41 AM »

Unlikely based on what specifically?

Unlikely that all those people would act against the investigation of the JFK murder. Just as it is unlikely that a large group of people would decide to assassinate JFK and keep it a secret. No one would alert the authorities so as to save the President and become a great American hero.


We know that LBJ and RFK suspected that there was a conspiracy yet still endorsed the Warren Report. That should be proof enough that there were "other" motives for sticking with the Lone Assassin conclusion beyond involvement with the conspiracy.

Why do YOU think LBJ chose to go against his personal belief that there was a conspiracy in Kennedy's murder?

I've already given my opinion based on what Johnson told Earl Warren.

Now everyone in the chain of command would drop the investigation. Some would pursue it, if only in the hopes of making the biggest break in their career. People would have to be repeatedly told the drop it. But we don’t have reports of FBI agents or policemen being told to drop it time and time again.

As far as LBJ is concerned, yes, it is clear he feared, in the worst-case scenario, that the Warren Commission, would find that Castro arranged for Kennedy’s murder. In which case, the American public would likely demand an invasion of Cuba to bring Castro to justice. Which might trigger the Soviet Union to retaliate. Like invading West Germany. But, while having these fears, there is no evidence he made certain the Warren Commission made certain they really reined in their investigation. Many who took part said they tried hard to find a conspiracy. It would be the highlight of their career. But could not find a strong link. None say that LBJ or anyone else pressured them to not find anything.


I honestly don't know. It could all be coincidental that people like Johnny Roselli, Sam Giancana, David Morales, Bill Harvey, and George DeMorenschildt (all suspected of involvement with the assassination) died around the time when Congress began re-investigating the JFK assassination. Or maybe it wasn't coincidental. 

OK. So, you are not a Small-Secret-Enduring CTers, who only believes there were two or two involved. You think there were five others. And, I bet, if I looked through your old posts, I would find a lot of other names.

And who ever heard of someone in the Mafia dying? And if someone well known in the Mafia does die, they shoot up to the top of the list of suspects in the JFK assassination. The one who is different is George DeMorenschildt. But, one of the most common forms of death in the elderly is suicide. Particularly if they are running out of money. And DeMorenschildt was under extra stress, about to testify to the HSCA where he would have to answer questions about joking with Oswald about him becoming an “assassin of Fascists”. Or why he suspected Oswald of trying to kill General Walker but just seemed to laugh it off.

And, it is strange, that if the HSCA had discovered a “bombshell”, why did they keep this a secret, even after DeMorenschildt died? Just what questions were they going to ask him that would require him to commit suicide or to be murdered? They have never said.


Not if it was an inside job.

If the truth is that individuals within the US national security community participated in the murder of a US President, that sort of thing could bring down our entire political system and cause all sorts of political disorder.

If you think Americans distrusting their government is bad now, imagine how much worse things would be if it were confirmed that Kennedy's assassination was an inside job.

Again, it’s beginning to sound like a larger conspiracy then the two or three you talked about. Just how large is the conspiracy that you suspect existed?



In conclusion, no, I don't believe the persons involved with killing JFK necessarily needed to have the same agenda and motivations as the institutions that covered up things after the assassination. It's plausible in my honest opinion to view the Conspiracy plot against JFK and the various institutional coverups as two entirely separate things...

A convenient way to pare down the size of the conspiracy. A smaller number of people who knew about the assassination beforehand. And a larger group who acted as if they were part of the conspiracy, but, by coincidence, were following their own motives that just happened to always work against a serious investigation. Whether they worked for the government or the media.

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Re: What a Conspiracy Theorist Needs to Do to be Taken Seriously.
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2021, 02:56:41 AM »


Offline Jon Banks

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Re: What a Conspiracy Theorist Needs to Do to be Taken Seriously.
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2021, 02:14:00 PM »
Unlikely that all those people would act against the investigation of the JFK murder. Just as it is unlikely that a large group of people would decide to assassinate JFK and keep it a secret. No one would alert the authorities so as to save the President and become a great American hero.

Secret Service agent Abraham Bolden tried to do that and ended up in prison later (falsely accused of corruption). He tried to blow the Whistle on the Chicago assassination plot against JFK.

The US government and Press doesn't treat national security Whistleblowers like heroes. Ask Daniel Ellsberg, Daniel Hale, and Edward Snowden.

Now everyone in the chain of command would drop the investigation. Some would pursue it, if only in the hopes of making the biggest break in their career. People would have to be repeatedly told the drop it. But we don’t have reports of FBI agents or policemen being told to drop it time and time again.

That's false. People were told by higher ups to "drop it".

There are reports of FBI agents, CIA, and diplomats being told to stop investigating conspiratorial leads.

One example was ambassador Thomas Mann. He said he was told to stop investigating Oswald's visit to Mexico City. CIA agents in MC received similar orders:

"...within days of the assassination, the ambassador received an astonishing top-secret message directly from Secretary of State Dean Rusk. According to Mann’s testimony years later to congressional investigators, Rusk ordered the embassy to shut down any investigation in Mexico that might “confirm or refute rumors of Cuban involvement in the assassination.” No reason was given for the order, the ambassador said.

Mann told the congressional investigators that he was under the impression that the same “incredible” shut-down order had been given by the CIA to the spy agency’s station chief in Mexico, Winston Scott."


https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/03/jfk-assassination-lee-harvey-oswald-mexico-116195/


A decision was made early in the investigations not to pursue conspiratorial leads (ie the Katzenberg memo). It likely started at the White House and flowed down through the various bureaucracies from there.


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: What a Conspiracy Theorist Needs to Do to be Taken Seriously.
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2021, 04:42:16 AM »

Secret Service agent Abraham Bolden tried to do that and ended up in prison later (falsely accused of corruption). He tried to blow the Whistle on the Chicago assassination plot against JFK.

. . .

OK. Clearly you are not being honest with us. Nor to yourself.

You claim that you are not a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy believer. That the original assassination conspiracy only involved two or three people in Dealey Plaza. Then, you inadvertently revealed five people who had to be killed off in the 1970’s to conceal the plot. Hardly sounds necessary when “only two or three” were involved. And now, once again, you inadvertently reveal that not only was there a plot to kill JFK in Dallas, there was another one in Chicago, and that the Secret Service was involved in both plots, or at least the one in Chicago.

Come on. Come clean with us. Admit that you are a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy Theorist. Even when you try to pare down your beliefs, you can’t go more than a day or two before you reveal that it’s bigger than a conspiracy of just two or three guys. You just can’t help yourself.

I don’t want anymore distractions where you bring up mysterious deaths. Or any alleged Secret Service plots. I just want you to make the case that you really believe the JFK assassination plot consisted of only two or three people who tried to kill JFK and no more than that. Can you do so for more than a day or two? Or will your real beliefs come out because you just can’t help yourself, even when your trying to appear to be only a small conspiracy believer. I wonder if you now claim the conspiracy didn’t involve two or three, but really more like ten or twenty, if a month from now you will be trying to convince us that the conspiracy involved no more than forty to fifty.


The truth is, JFK CTers are Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy believers. All the major movies and TV shows, most prominently “JFK”, all the major CT books, push a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy.

A challenge for any CTer here:

1. Name me one prominent CT movie that does not push a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy.

2. Name me one prominent CT TV show that does not push a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy.

3. Name me one prominent CT book that does not push a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy.

4. Name my one CTer who posts at this forum, who at least initially did not get sucked in by a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy belief?


Offline Jon Banks

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Re: What a Conspiracy Theorist Needs to Do to be Taken Seriously.
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2021, 05:10:52 AM »
OK. Clearly you are not being honest with us. Nor to yourself.

Terms like "large" "big" "small" are all subjective. Therefore, my definition of a "large" conspiracy isn't necessarily the same as yours.

How many people were involved with Iran-Contra? Was that a "Large Enduring Conspiracy"?


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Re: What a Conspiracy Theorist Needs to Do to be Taken Seriously.
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2021, 05:10:52 AM »